tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post1061289091716836681..comments2024-03-25T09:43:27.402-04:00Comments on Divrei Chaim: tefilas tashluminChaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-57540082028082376282009-11-01T14:31:35.857-05:002009-11-01T14:31:35.857-05:00Chaim B.( 9:27 PM):
G.I. -- in the case at hand my...<b>Chaim B.</b>( <a href="http://divreichaim.blogspot.com/2009/10/tefilas-tashlumin.html?showComment=1256866065827#c2014282552124190957" rel="nofollow">9:27 PM</a>)<b>:</b><br /><i>G.I. -- in the case at hand my daughter does not normally daven ma'ariv, but in this case she has to for the tashlumin. The author of Halichos Beisa writes that he asked his uncle, R' Shlomo Zalman, whether a woman can stil do tashlumin at shacharis if she forgot to daven ma'ariv and R.S.Z. said no (see the sefer for his ra'aya).</i><br /><br /><i>Im Halakha - Neqabel, ve'Im leDin</i>... I agree with <b>Garnel Ironheart</b>: if she is not required to pray <i>Arvit</i>, it is no more for her than a <i>Tefilat Nedava</i>, then, why require her to say it for <i>Tashlumim</i>, rather than let her wait till her next <i>Tefilat Chova</i>, <i>i.e.</i> <i>Shacharit</i>.<br />I'd also add that, in my opinion, if she is <i>Yos'et Yedei Chova</i> in the <i>Qidush</i> before the meal( even if <i>mi-deRabanan</i>, otherwise, why is it effective at all ?), then why require her to pray <i>Arvit</i>, that she doesn't during the week, in order to make a <i>Qidush haYom de'Ora'ita</i> ?<br /><br /><i>Barzilai - I told her just shmoneh esrei, not brachos k.s. That was not explicit in the sefer, but it stands to reason. Yes, chovah always has to come first, chovah in the relative sense in this case (to answer your second kashe).</i><br /><br />As I understand it, when one does something he is not generally required to, he is to do it in the same form as those who are required do. If we accept R.S.Z's <i>pesaq</i> that she cannot do her <i>Tashlumim</i> with <i>Shacharit</i>, but must do it with <i>Arvit</i>, then she should follow the same procedure men would( and she would if it was <i>Shacharit</i> she had forgotten), and pray <i>Arvit</i> and add the <i>Tashlumim</i> to it. Doing otherwise, it seems like she is either praying <i>Mincha</i> after it's time, or praying a <i>Tefilat Nedava</i>, that isn't really <i>Tashlumim</i> for the missed <i>Tefila</i>.<br /><br /><i>The fact that there is no chovah essentially is why I thought the ra'aya from ever Shabbos, where there is a real chovah acc. to some, is difficult. I did my best to explain it, but quite honestly I am not 100% satisfied myself with the hesber.</i><br /><br />I think the <i>ra'aya</i> is saying that it can't be claimed that because she generally doesn't pray <i>Arvit</i>, that she is cannot pray it for adding <i>Tashlumim</i> for <i>Mincha</i>. If she can pray <i>Arvit</i> to do through it <i>Qidush haYom de'Ora'ita</i>, then she can pray it to add <i>Tashlumim</i> for <i>Mincha</i> as well.Tamirnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-75402181851627037692009-10-30T10:03:02.802-04:002009-10-30T10:03:02.802-04:00Australia Joe,
You got me curious. I took a peek ...Australia Joe,<br />You got me curious. I took a peek in the S"A haRav 263:8 and he omits the word "kodesh". The footnote sent me to a letter of the Rebbe (IG"K 6:124) who writes that the addition of the word "kodesh" is not the ikar hanusach but an addition that he does not know the source for other than mesorah of the women. <br /><br />I am just wondering if what you wrote is your own sevara for the addition of the word "kodesh" or is there a makor you got it from? Either way, interesting.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-61129945247165573132009-10-30T09:43:19.649-04:002009-10-30T09:43:19.649-04:00Or, you can rely on Reb Akiva Eiger of Posen in OC...Or, you can rely on Reb Akiva Eiger of Posen in OC 271 that when you greet a friend with a hearty Good Shabbos you are yotzei kiddush mideoraysa.Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-69374071090418481152009-10-30T02:11:55.227-04:002009-10-30T02:11:55.227-04:00The nusach of the Alter Rebbe of Chabad in candle ...The <i>nusach</i> of the Alter Rebbe of Chabad in candle lighting is, IIRC, "<i>lehadlik ner shel shabbat <b>kodesh</b></i>", which has the effect of making women who light candles <i>yotzei</i> in <i>kiddush miderabbanan</i>.Joe in Australianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-20142825521241909572009-10-29T21:27:45.827-04:002009-10-29T21:27:45.827-04:00G.I. -- in the case at hand my daughter does not n...G.I. -- in the case at hand my daughter does not normally daven ma'ariv, but in this case she has to for the tashlumin. The author of Halichos Beisa writes that he asked his uncle, R' Shlomo Zalman, whether a woman can stil do tashlumin at shacharis if she forgot to daven ma'ariv and R.S.Z. said no (see the sefer for his ra'aya).<br /><br />Barzilai - I told her just shmoneh esrei, not brachos k.s. That was not explicit in the sefer, but it stands to reason. Yes, chovah always has to come first, chovah in the relative sense in this case (to answer your second kashe). <br />The fact that there is no chovah essentially is why I thought the ra'aya from ever Shabbos, where there is a real chovah acc. to some, is difficult. I did my best to explain it, but quite honestly I am not 100% satisfied myself with the hesber.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-7312794760003696332009-10-29T20:48:20.514-04:002009-10-29T20:48:20.514-04:00Why would she have to say birchos krias shma? Jus...Why would she have to say birchos krias shma? Just say the shmoneh esrei. Also, did he say to daven maariv with two shmoneh esreis? Why? Because the chova has to come first? There's no chova here for her. So I'm confused.Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-61588007390720665522009-10-29T18:08:30.674-04:002009-10-29T18:08:30.674-04:00I wonder though. Let's say the woman in quest...I wonder though. Let's say the woman in question doesn't usually daven Maariv. Thus the only obligatory amidahs she has are Shacharis and Mincha.<br />Now if I miss the amidah at Minchah I have to daven twice at Maariv not because it's Maariv but because it's the next time an amidah is said. So could one suggest that since for the woman who misses mincha her next officially scheduled amidah is shacharis, that she could then do tashlumin the next morning?Garnel Ironhearthttp://garnelironheart.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-19774953023931189502009-10-29T17:54:40.516-04:002009-10-29T17:54:40.516-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ariella's bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409352047101582583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-56423350596378929472009-10-29T16:54:21.339-04:002009-10-29T16:54:21.339-04:00This wouldn't be a problem for those of us who...This wouldn't be a problem for those of us who daven Mincha after shkia. :)Chanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15785116781179439474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-40623368719478303942009-10-29T16:35:28.160-04:002009-10-29T16:35:28.160-04:00he;s a talmud chacham and author of other seforim ...he;s a talmud chacham and author of other seforim as well but i also heard not to pasken from it as it is known that there are some controversial psakim in there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-89862694486214733822009-10-29T15:52:08.443-04:002009-10-29T15:52:08.443-04:00>>>The reason is because of arevut
The D...>>>The reason is because of arevut<br /><br />The Dagul m'Revava is l'shitaso that there is no arvus by women based on a Rosh in Brachos. <br />Discussed that a few years ago - <br />http://divreichaim.blogspot.com/2006/11/shabbos-kiddush-does-arvus-apply-to.html<br /><br />The Halichos Beisa was written by R' Shlomo Zalman Auerbach's nephew whose name I can't recall offhand (I don't have the sefer in front of me). Don't know if it's been translated.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-62537623625625393742009-10-29T14:23:44.733-04:002009-10-29T14:23:44.733-04:00"Why not take advantage of the opportunity fo..."Why not take advantage of the opportunity for avodas Hashem?"- ולואי שיתפלל אדם כל היום כולו אמר רבי יוחנן...<br /><br />"I don't know anything about the author of Halichos Beisa"- Who 'is' the author? I never heard of it. That's not an English sefer is it?הצעיר שלמה בן רפאל לבית שריקי ס"טhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04835340110056405173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-65560024936486852562009-10-29T13:25:06.208-04:002009-10-29T13:25:06.208-04:00I have never understood this question of the Dagul...I have never understood this question of the Dagul Merevava. Even if a person has completely fulfilled their obligation of, say, blowing Shofar or reading Megillah, he can still be motzi others, despite the fact that he is no longer obligated to perform the mitzvah at all.<br /><br />How can this be? The reason is because of arevut, which is a result of the fact that the obligation applies to him in general, even if he may already have discharged in it this particular case.<br /><br />So too, the fact that now, as a result of praying Arvit, you may only be obligated in Qiddush miderabbanan will not affect your ability to be motzi people who have not prayed Arvit and are thus obligated mideorayta. Your ability to be motzi them is contingent on your sharing the obligation of qiddush with them mideorayta, not your being actually obligated in this particular qiddush mideorayta.Rabbi Joshua Maroofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585369620887846940noreply@blogger.com