tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post114987819781208285..comments2024-03-28T21:21:02.777-04:00Comments on Divrei Chaim: Siyata D'Shemaya and Psak HalachaChaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1150198329685256562006-06-13T07:32:00.000-04:002006-06-13T07:32:00.000-04:00Your brother in law's essay brings to mind the ide...Your brother in law's essay brings to mind the idea of quantum halacha; in place of Schrodinger's cat, we would have Schrodinger's psak: there, the act of observation crystalizes or collapses the potentials into one real phenomenon, and here the act of pasken collapses the potentials into one reified choice.<BR/>And my psychological reading co-exists with your reading; the one does not nullify the other.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1150132739520628392006-06-12T13:18:00.000-04:002006-06-12T13:18:00.000-04:00Your mistake is assuming that there is a single 'r...Your mistake is assuming that there is a single 'ratzon Hashem' which is the bulls eye of truth to which everything must correspond. See my brother-in-law's essay http://www.aishdas.org/rygb/eilu.htm <BR/>Ratzon Hashem is multi-faceted. The bas kol called upon by R"E revealed one level of ratzon Hashem. Chazal revealed a different layer of ratzon Hashem. Because of the rules of psak, we assume that in our daily lives the ratzon Hashem revealed by the rabim is the correct derech for us, but we do not reject the approach of the yachid as lacking truth or validity (eilu v'eilu).Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1150129270474904282006-06-12T12:21:00.000-04:002006-06-12T12:21:00.000-04:00If the bas kol wasn't trying to inform them of the...If the bas kol wasn't trying to inform them of the real ratzon hashem, then why did it call out to them (assuming the event actually happened)?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1150119549921919392006-06-12T09:39:00.000-04:002006-06-12T09:39:00.000-04:00Jeffrey, sounds to me like you are making a distin...Jeffrey, sounds to me like you are making a distinction without a difference. I never said Heaven 'showed a posek the correct result' - merely that without that help, the wrong result is inevitable (as I wrote, a necessary ingredient). If you like to use the analogy of a parent helping a child, so be it, but you are still conceding that halacha is more than the consensus of human minds operating independently, which is how many (mistakingly) view halacha. <BR/>I reject your psychological reading as far from the plain meaning of the text - the gemara could very well have said that b'makom rabo one cannot learn properly because of psychological reasons, but it clearly invokes siyata d'shemaya. Unless you reject the notion of siyata d'shemaya, I fail to see why you would not take it to mean what it says. <BR/>Tanur shel achnaei is not a disproof - it simply demonstrates that the voice of Hashem as revealed through the thought of Chazal supercedes a bas kol. The parallel is chacham adif m'navi, meaning the the chacham's giuly of ratzon Hashem is superior - see Rav Kook's explanation along those lines in Orot.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1150081099561146872006-06-11T22:58:00.000-04:002006-06-11T22:58:00.000-04:00I read David's comment as referring to the episode...I read David's comment as referring to the episode of the stove of Akhnai.<BR/><BR/>But I suggest a closer attention to the words of Abaye: that one would not receive Heavenly help to arrive at the correct psak. To me this phrasing implies, not that Heaven will show the posek the correct result, but that Heaven will provide assistance to him as he works out what the correct result should be. Abaye said he was not guided to the correct result, but did not say he was not given the correct result. Rather as a parent helps their child to learn a new skill, close by, giving direction and possibly lending a hand to help the child move in the right direction, but the effort and the result are ultimately the child's and not the parent's.<BR/><BR/>And on the simple psychological level Abaye's comment is simple enough to explain: being disrespectful to one's rav signifies an intrusion of one's ego that impedes the ability to focus in on Torah.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1150070546985478742006-06-11T20:02:00.000-04:002006-06-11T20:02:00.000-04:00David, if anything, you have strengthened my point...David, if anything, you have strengthened my point. Because BN"Y could not handle the experience of the unmediated word of G-d, they therefore requested to receive His will through an intermediary - Moshe, then later the Prophets, and later through Chazal. See Ramban Baba Basra 12a.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1150064454992408522006-06-11T18:20:00.000-04:002006-06-11T18:20:00.000-04:00If the halachic process is supposed to be an expre...If the halachic process is supposed to be an expression of Hashem's will, then why did they reject the heavenly voice when it told them explicity what Hashem's will was?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1150062328159041922006-06-11T17:45:00.000-04:002006-06-11T17:45:00.000-04:00They can't harass you because it's Toras Emes.They can't harass you because it's Toras Emes.Reuven Chaim Kleinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05836805247888732019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1149882901841554792006-06-09T15:55:00.000-04:002006-06-09T15:55:00.000-04:00Hey, all I'm doing is quoting a gemara.Hey, all I'm doing is quoting a gemara.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1149881596370200602006-06-09T15:33:00.000-04:002006-06-09T15:33:00.000-04:00Now they're going to come here and harass you :-)...Now they're going to come here and harass you :-)Chaim Markowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08927146649559508598noreply@blogger.com