tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post116654894335396295..comments2024-03-25T09:43:27.402-04:00Comments on Divrei Chaim: segulos, mysticism, and fundementals of faithChaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1166767194865822492006-12-22T00:59:00.000-05:002006-12-22T00:59:00.000-05:00I would also like to recommend the article linked ...I would also like to recommend the article linked below, by Rabbi Yaakov Horowitz. I should note that the article was the third in a series regarding the advertising of the "Chai Rotel" segulah, and is not discussing any other specific tzedokah. I quote relevant parts, and link it at the end of the post.<BR/><BR/>"I mention this in the context of the past two columns appearing in this space noting that increasingly more and more charity ads are hawking 'yeshuos' (miraculous salvations) to prompt people to give tzedakah - as opposed to (or in addition to) making a thoughtful case for why this particular charity is worthy of your support. <BR/><BR/>"There are those in our diverse kehilos who attach great significance to segulos and/or yeshuos. Others take the "Tomim t'heyeh im Hashem Elokecha," (Devorim 18:13, see Rashi) approach and do not attach much meaning to segulos/yeshuos. Further along the continuum, there are those who are put off by the notion of segulos/yeshuos and feel that they are presented as 'shortcuts' leading to instant acceptance of tefilos...<BR/><BR/>With that in mind, we ought to respect each other's approaches to this matter of segulos and yeshuos. However, in the public arena, I strongly feel that charity ads should be making the case for why particular tzedakos are worthy of the reader's donation - without engaging in 'marketing' segulos or yeshuos...<BR/><BR/> There are so many wonderful and diverse charities in our community, each of them worthy of communal support; Tomchei Shabbos, Bikur Cholim, etc. It is the responsibility of those in the leadership of the charities to make the case - in ads, flyers, and personal solicitations - as to why donors should contribute to them. It is certainly appropriate to present footnoted, universally accepted mamorei chazal (words of our sages) - such as a pasuk from Tanach, a quote from a gemorah, or the commentary of Rashi - supporting the themes of the charity in a way that presents a logical thread to the reader."<BR/><BR/><BR/>http://www.rabbihorowitz.com/PYes/ArticleDetails.cfm?Book_ID=14&ThisGroup_ID=235&Type=ArticleBaruch Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06852916443001837134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1166757174646834332006-12-21T22:12:00.000-05:002006-12-21T22:12:00.000-05:00"I should acknowledge that my hasidic ancestry has..."I should acknowledge that my hasidic ancestry has not protected me from become a rationalist misnaged."<BR/><BR/>I also have some chassidic blood in me, but I try to be as rational as possible. I think that one can take the best from all worlds. Rav Shraga Feivel Mendelowitz taught that approach.<BR/><BR/>I commented elsewhere that I am concerned about "kol hamoseif gorea". Adding new things to Yahadus and emunah can be deleterious in the long run. <BR/><BR/>Completely avoiding segulos, is one end of the pole, but the sensationalization of segulos in advertsing is another extreme.Baruch Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06852916443001837134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1166719947315356682006-12-21T11:52:00.000-05:002006-12-21T11:52:00.000-05:00There has been an open increase in commercializati...There has been an open increase in commercialization of segulos and in guarantees that tefillos will produce a desired result. The most blatent shift is shown in the recent requests for tzedaka where one can check off ones needs and gedolim in Bnei Brak will be mispallel for you. The brochures include stories of miraculous results for those who have donated. What is particularly significant is the gedolim are not Hasidic Rebbes. One should contrast the brochures with the requests for tzedaka for Ezras Torah when Rav Henkin Z.T.L. was alive.<BR/>There are minhagim involving segulos that were unheard of when twenty five years ago in Yeshivos that are now common practice. One example is giving psichas haaron to a husband whose wife is in the ninth month of pregnancy. <BR/>The increased reliance on segulos reflects a community that is less rational and self reliant. The gap between hassidim and misnagdim is disappearing without any recollections of the non-miracle Rebbes of Pshyscha and Kotzk.<BR/> I should acknowledge that my hasidic ancestry has not protected me from become a rationalist misnaged.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1166714887471498522006-12-21T10:28:00.000-05:002006-12-21T10:28:00.000-05:00"Anonymous, you mean as illustrated by your commen..."Anonymous, you mean as illustrated by your comment?"<BR/><BR/>Among others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1166673232945310402006-12-20T22:53:00.000-05:002006-12-20T22:53:00.000-05:00Excellent post.Excellent post.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1166638521774336582006-12-20T13:15:00.000-05:002006-12-20T13:15:00.000-05:00Anonymous, you mean as illustrated by your comment...Anonymous, you mean as illustrated by your comment?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1166633970539268182006-12-20T11:59:00.000-05:002006-12-20T11:59:00.000-05:00The condescension found in blogs or comments is pr...The condescension found in blogs or comments is probably an indicator and/or cause of timtum halev.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1166584476426423792006-12-19T22:14:00.000-05:002006-12-19T22:14:00.000-05:00I would identify the problem with segulot as the f...I would identify the problem with segulot as the fact that they imply that the Master of the Universe can be manipulated in an almost mechanical fashion. <BR/><BR/>Part of the problem lies in what I might call, diplomatically, the overestimation of rabbinical figures. Men who are accorded the status of gedolim accept this sort of thinking, and therefore it must be true since, as we know, gedolim are never wrong. <BR/>If a certain very respected rabbi decides to link the safety level of El Al with its observance of Shabbat, then we must fly El Al only if it observes Shabbat properly. But that is the really the same type of thinking as segulot. [Perhaps the certain very respected rabbi had a quite different rationale in mind. But that's the only way I can understand the matter.] And people accept it without pausing to consider that perhaps the certain respected rabbi had allowed his zeal for the Sabbath to outweigh his critical thinking skills--or perhaps he was himself never educated or exposed to the sort of education you prefer, and simply does really think the universe operates that way. [I speak, obviously, as a person who has a definitely minimalist concept of Daat Torah.]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1166558407572532252006-12-19T15:00:00.000-05:002006-12-19T15:00:00.000-05:00The Rambam devotes the largest potion of his intro...The Rambam devotes the largest potion of his introduction to Perek Cheilek to the point I think you are making. While we all know the 13 ikarrim that come toward the end of said introduction, the earlier portions are worth study also.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1166553924350043512006-12-19T13:45:00.000-05:002006-12-19T13:45:00.000-05:00A few CC posts on the topic:http://www.cross-curre...A few CC posts on the topic:<BR/><BR/>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2006/11/01/rav-yaakov-hillel-outs-the-charlatans/<BR/><BR/>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2006/05/15/the-apostasy-of-the-monsey-fish/<BR/><BR/>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2006/06/07/lessons-from-a-tragedyBaruch Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06852916443001837134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1166553775484441722006-12-19T13:42:00.000-05:002006-12-19T13:42:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Baruch Horowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06852916443001837134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1166553098391914112006-12-19T13:31:00.000-05:002006-12-19T13:31:00.000-05:00I haven't denied the potential spiritual benefit o...I haven't denied the potential spiritual benefit of not eating cheeseburgers or potentially of segulos. But if you think timtum halev causes congested arteries, and you advertise that fact to the public who does not know better, you have a problem.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1166550832170949352006-12-19T12:53:00.000-05:002006-12-19T12:53:00.000-05:00Actually, from a Chassidic perspective, non-kosher...Actually, from a Chassidic perspective, non-kosher causes "timtum halev" So they do infuse avoidance of cheeseburgers etc.with spiritual benefit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com