tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post285554407032560155..comments2024-03-28T21:21:02.777-04:00Comments on Divrei Chaim: the personality of Lot and Avraham's efforts at kiruvChaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-85330509400814312302007-10-19T10:38:00.000-04:002007-10-19T10:38:00.000-04:00I agree with Tal -- choosing to live somewhere bec...I agree with Tal -- choosing to live somewhere because there are better financial opportunities when you are surrounded by a wicked society does not speak well of a person. None of us would move to Wyoming (le-mashal) -- even if in theory we were to receive a financial opportunity there -- because we would not be able to live a Torah lifestyle (shuls, schools, chevra, etc.) So Lot choosing Sdom -- not to save his life from famine -- but to make more money does speak to his values.<BR/> (A vort that I think I heard in the name of R'Kook -- trying to be be-shem omro -- that we wave the lulav on Ana Hashem Hoshia na but not for hatlizcha -- because for a yeshua we should go wherever we need but for hatzlacha, we need to stay where we should be -- I don't recall if the point was to stay in EY or in a makom Torah, but the concept is the same)<BR/><BR/><BR/> I agree that there seemed to be a good piece of him that internalized Avraham's values but that seemed to be lower down the priority list than the money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-60429552623443224332007-10-19T07:09:00.000-04:002007-10-19T07:09:00.000-04:00Lot is a mystery figure in the chumash - why did h...Lot is a mystery figure in the chumash - why did he accompany Avraham to begin with? Doesn't that says something of his character?<BR/><BR/>I am not convinced that choosing to live in Sdom itself is a black mark because there was an ulterior motive - the land in that area was good for grazing (reiterating elamdan's point). Aside from the Ramban, most meforshim do not criticize Avraham from going to Mitzrayim, a land of shtufei zimah, when faced with a famine. I don't mean to equate a famine with the desire for better pasture, but the point is that you need to take motive into account.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-48737530872239667402007-10-18T21:53:00.000-04:002007-10-18T21:53:00.000-04:00Tal, I am aware of that. However, it also clearly ...Tal, <BR/>I am aware of that. However, it also clearly indicates that Lot was very different than the people of Sodom with the hachnasas orchim episode. Also, you don't really see in the chumash that he chose to live in Sodom because they were evil. The chumash makes it sound like he just chose that area because he thought he could do well financially there.eLamdanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07421138991513814819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-66164031127327530582007-10-18T21:44:00.000-04:002007-10-18T21:44:00.000-04:00elamdan:The Chumash says quite plainly that Sodom ...elamdan:<BR/><BR/>The Chumash says quite plainly that Sodom was especially wicked. Lot chose to be a part of that society. That certainly does not speak well of him.<BR/><BR/>While we are in the topic, I once heard a vort from R. Aharon Soloveichik zt"l in the name of his father. Chazal, as brought down by Rashi, say that Lot was appointed a judge in Sdom on the very day that the angels came to destroy it. Now Lot, while no great tsaddik, certainly learned something from Avraham Avinu -- hahchnasos orchim, matzoh. So one would think that appointing someone like Lot as a judge would be an improvement -- yet davka on that day Sdom was destroyed. Why?<BR/><BR/>R. Moshe Soloveichik said that it was like the difference between Russia under the Czars and Russia under the Communists. Both had oppressive laws. But under the Czars the judges too were corrupt -- a nice fat bribe and a person could often get out of trouble. Under the Communists, this was not so -- they were true believers who ruthlessly enforced their oppressive laws.<BR/><BR/>Sdom was an oppressive society with oppressive laws. Lot was an honest judge. There is nothing worse than an honest judge enforcing oppressive laws -- then there is no escape from the oppression.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-71331747158731846992007-10-18T19:55:00.000-04:002007-10-18T19:55:00.000-04:00In the chumash itself do we find that Lot really w...In the chumash itself do we find that Lot really was a bad man? (not including midrashim)eLamdanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07421138991513814819noreply@blogger.com