tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post3852164645234433094..comments2024-03-28T21:21:02.777-04:00Comments on Divrei Chaim: seudah hamafseket on Shabbos?Chaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-48936603655776540452008-08-07T14:37:00.000-04:002008-08-07T14:37:00.000-04:00I don't understand what you mean - either the seud...I don't understand what you mean - either the seudah is done in the spirit of aveilus or its not. Calling it preparatory doesn't remove the fact that eating bread and ashes while sitting on the floor is an overt act of mouring.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-87219484673341109482008-08-07T13:56:00.000-04:002008-08-07T13:56:00.000-04:00I don't think so, since the actual qiyum of the se...I don't think so, since the actual qiyum of the seudah is only realized on Tisha B'av itself. There are preparatory actions of avelut but no actual qiyum of avelut on Erev Tisha B'av according to the position that allows/recommends a regular seudah hamafseqet on ShabbatRabbi Joshua Maroofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585369620887846940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-40799828193861015362008-08-07T12:01:00.000-04:002008-08-07T12:01:00.000-04:00More to come on the topic, but you anticipate some...More to come on the topic, but you anticipate some of what I was planning to say. This point bothers me - <BR/><BR/>>>>or is it a derivative from and prelude to Tisha B'av itself<BR/><BR/>Shouldn't that be all the more reason for Shabbos to cancel any such mourning practices?Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-19717960844859575982008-08-07T11:12:00.000-04:002008-08-07T11:12:00.000-04:00The lomdish answer you cite is also mentioned in a...The lomdish answer you cite is also mentioned in a couple of compendia of the Rav's hiddushim on Tisha B'av.<BR/><BR/>In general, there is a whole current of halakhic thought that is premised on the idea that Erev Tisha B'av is the hatchala of the process of avelut, and therefore partakes of dinei avelut in certain ways (limitations on Talmud Torah after hatzot, etc.) It is the entry point into the full observance of mourning on Tisha B'av itself. <BR/><BR/>The Rambam underscores this point when he states that he never ate a cooked dish on Erev Tisha B'av in his life unless it fell out on Shabbat. He considers the fact that we limit the dinei avelut to Seudah Hamafseqet to be a concession to the weaknesses of the hamon am.<BR/><BR/>So the question, I suppose, could be framed like this: Is the din of Erev Tisha B'av an independent phenomenon which is therefore simply canceled out when it falls on Shabbat, or is it a derivative from and prelude to Tisha B'av itself, in which case it would remain in place even on Shabbat, just as the other aspects of Tisha B'av are observed with sunset even though it is still Shabbat.Rabbi Joshua Maroofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585369620887846940noreply@blogger.com