tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post5183414670019624972..comments2024-03-25T09:43:27.402-04:00Comments on Divrei Chaim: where was the mizbeyach located -- halacha vs. realityChaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-51444763117914716552011-01-16T10:04:43.180-05:002011-01-16T10:04:43.180-05:00BEchoros 17 is a different one... I plan bli neder...BEchoros 17 is a different one... I plan bli neder to post that one this week if I have time.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-7243895967284890182011-01-15T20:59:18.899-05:002011-01-15T20:59:18.899-05:00the griz is somewher else. i wanna say bechoros 17...the griz is somewher else. i wanna say bechoros 17Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-74356299976359810222011-01-12T00:44:44.860-05:002011-01-12T00:44:44.860-05:00the rebbe approach differs then haRav Desseler, in...the rebbe approach differs then haRav Desseler, in that Rav dessler learns it as a minhag- that doesnt establish the halahacha <br /><br /><br />while the rebbe learns it that if the limid via yud gimmel drashas, it can be learnt out and the previous metzios dosent have matter<br /><br />even though the second beis dn is smaller - yiftach bdoro kishmel bidoro<br /><br />the rambam writes about that a beis din cant change a passuk is only a takkanah, not a drasha <br /><br />interestingly he goes though tefllin of rashi and r"t, which is after the chasmias hatalmud - there was a tradition like both<br /><br />fascinating topicAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-41432842423271515312011-01-11T23:35:38.152-05:002011-01-11T23:35:38.152-05:00The issue of Ya'akov Avinu Lo Mais can be unde...The issue of Ya'akov Avinu Lo Mais can be understood as that the derasha teaches us that our definition of Mais is faulty. Certainly he was embalmed - that is a possuk, not a derasha. It could be that this is what R' Chaim meant.<br /><br />The Yerushalmi in Pesachim on the ma'aseh with Hillel and the Bnai Besairah gives a "blunt force" answer which matches somewhat a previous comment. Simply, the shikchah was min Hashmayim to allow Hillel to attain greatness. <br /><br />The Meiri on the other hand takes an approach similar to the Michtav m'Eliyahu in saying that they knew the halacha but simply forgot the derasha for it. However, he does not invoke the concept that it would therefore only be a minhag and not torah sheba'al peh; rather, he says, there were those who were "me'ra'anim acharov" [probably saying that bringing the Korban Pesach on Shabbat is a terrible kulah and we have to be machmir - we all know that tradition cannot stand up to the harsh light of chumros], and therefore they needed the derasha. At least in those days, even the machmirim were submissive in the face of a makor.<br /><br />I apply the Yerushalmi to many issues where gedolim disagree with my obviously correct opinions: it's min Hashamyim, for whatever reasons that only The Ribbono Shel Olam knows. Palgei Mayim Lev Melochim Beyad Hashem...Man Malki, Rabbanan. <br /><br />What this means in the context of Lo Bashamayim He requires a deeper analysis. But we find a similar approach in Tosafos in Chullin [according to the Maharam] regarding Makom Hainichu Lanu Avosainu where he says that min Hashamyim the previous generations erred in their psak to allow a gadol in a future generation to correct the mistake. And while Rashi seems to say differently, the Maharsha apparently is docheck that understanding into Rashi also.<br /><br />[This also gets into Ailu v'Ailu, which is not a simple topic either.]<br /><br />An analogy would be the question of whether bechira is absolute, or does The Ribbono Shel Olam occasionally override it [even in a non-punishment situation a la Par'oh] where historical necessity presses. See, e.g., Yehuda and Tamar.great unknownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-56566486660718826982011-01-11T22:55:56.085-05:002011-01-11T22:55:56.085-05:00http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=4615&...http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=4615&st=&pgnum=22<br /><br />page 702 -710 <br />the rebbe has a very intresting approach, it covers many machlokos of metzios<br /><br /><br />love reading your blog - amazing divreai torah<br /><br />shmulyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1260139246964563942011-01-11T22:11:22.214-05:002011-01-11T22:11:22.214-05:00there is a very interesting Sicha of the Rebbe, i ...there is a very interesting Sicha of the Rebbe, i think it achron shel pesach. 5738<br /><br />about tziztos beis shammi and beis hillel 3 or 4 strings,<br /><br />also with bnei bessia and korbaon pesach. Beis shammi and beis hillel<br /><br />that although the was a metzios, if you can darshon a passuk, to be differently then that was valid even though the metzios was different.<br /><br />this stopped at the chassos hashas, when they could no longer darshon passokim- very long ago so i dont recall all detailsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-65408707579096963262011-01-11T19:00:24.846-05:002011-01-11T19:00:24.846-05:00I can't find either mareh makom you are referr...I can't find either mareh makom you are referring to. There is no griz on these dapin (at least not in the new edition)Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1597217599595930992011-01-11T15:44:15.790-05:002011-01-11T15:44:15.790-05:00this is an old question discussed in the griz ther...this is an old question discussed in the griz there in zvachim and in mikdash dovid siman alephAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-76192813749799890552011-01-10T14:27:31.199-05:002011-01-10T14:27:31.199-05:00PC -- you are willing to tolerate a machlokes is m...PC -- you are willing to tolerate a machlokes is metziyus? And the answer doesn't fit the proof from the tzitz that R' Dessler brings because in that case one tanna saw the tzitz is Rome, the other didn't. (BTW, I though the Steipler dealt with this in Chayei Olam, but I have the old edition at home and couldn't find it.)<br /><br />B -- IIRC whether they were mekadesh the floor or not is itself a machlokes, bot of 59a. Secondly, some Tanaim darshen that there is an issur of having kelim in the north, other tanaim old that that is the spot the mizbeyach stood and that derasha is wrong. That's more than a matter of best practice.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-34805892061317544622011-01-10T12:54:00.365-05:002011-01-10T12:54:00.365-05:00Nobody holds the position is me'akeiv the kash...Nobody holds the position is me'akeiv the kashrus of the mizbeach. After all, all you need is a structure, because the floor has the same kedusha. So the issue is what's lechatchila and what's bedieved. I don't know if the people who built it cared so much about lechatchila and bedieved. True, the Chashmona'im rebuilt it, but after that point it's possible that it was rebuilt several times, too, by Hordus for example.bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-5649273806819120742011-01-09T21:22:22.709-05:002011-01-09T21:22:22.709-05:00The Steipler in Peninei Rabbeinu Koheles Yaakov sa...The Steipler in Peninei Rabbeinu Koheles Yaakov says that you can't bring a proof from the beis hamikdosh becuase the tanna will say fine, that's what they did because they held that way but I argue.pchttp://torahdownunder.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-45493355860933941182011-01-09T19:13:12.573-05:002011-01-09T19:13:12.573-05:00Quoted in "Nesivos Raboseinu l'Beis Brisk...Quoted in "Nesivos Raboseinu l'Beis Brisk"Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-85198442594259176862011-01-09T18:17:22.609-05:002011-01-09T18:17:22.609-05:00I don't understand, the derasha of Yaakov Avin...I don't understand, the derasha of Yaakov Avinu lo mes doesn't contradict a metzius - it's a possuk! It's not 'what we see as reality.' Where is this R' Chaim?sbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-52725728643808230502011-01-09T14:26:13.261-05:002011-01-09T14:26:13.261-05:00I mentioned the question to my wife and she had a ...I mentioned the question to my wife and she had a similar idea to yours. Chazal say that thousands of halachos were forgotten when Moshe died. Perhaps here too part of the tragedy is the disruption of the mesorah.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-69962218307628531692011-01-09T13:32:39.174-05:002011-01-09T13:32:39.174-05:00I was thinking about this very same thing today.
...I was thinking about this very same thing today. <br /><br />Maybe you can also say that the fact that they had disputes over things like the location of the mizbeyach (which we assume that they would remember themselves, or that could collect testimony on) is indicative of the level of <em>churban</em> that was affected onto the Jewish people - after the destruction, even the mesorah for the goings-on from just a few years before became corrupted.Yaakovhttp://shtark.netnoreply@blogger.com