tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post5739565811735193805..comments2024-03-28T21:21:02.777-04:00Comments on Divrei Chaim: shome'a k'oneh and a question that stumps meChaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-49478109893403737802007-05-01T22:49:00.000-04:002007-05-01T22:49:00.000-04:00I had always wondered why no one seemed to interpr...I had always wondered why no one seemed to interpret "v'qara bo kol yeme hayav" as an actual mitsvah on the melech, a la the simple reading of the pasuq.Rabbi Joshua Maroofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585369620887846940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-25105550529943080442007-05-01T20:16:00.000-04:002007-05-01T20:16:00.000-04:00The Lechem mishna quotes a tosefta that uses Vekar...The Lechem mishna quotes a tosefta that uses Vekara Bo to prohibit anyone but the king to read from this sefer Torah. This sounds like a Lav haba miklal asseh.The point of the LM is that Rambam does not bring this din. <BR/><BR/>Food for thought. but the more I think about it that was the case of shafan and Yoshyahu.David Guttmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07668302013143561290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1534533590850115992007-05-01T20:10:00.000-04:002007-05-01T20:10:00.000-04:00Sorry that is Devarim 17:19Sorry that is Devarim 17:19David Guttmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07668302013143561290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-28319244182871516132007-05-01T20:09:00.000-04:002007-05-01T20:09:00.000-04:00Is it possible that theis is the special Mitzvah o...Is it possible that theis is the special Mitzvah of Krya that the melech has?<BR/>see Devarim 15:19<BR/><BR/>I am not clear if it is the mitzvah of hakhel or a special mitzvah the king has to read. In Mitzvah Asseh 17 rambam talks about writing. In Hil Melachim 3:1 he uses this passuk as proof that it should be with him all the time. i guess not as a talisman but to be read. That then is a mitzva on the melech. Tzarich Iyun.David Guttmannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07668302013143561290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-5607625897827426982007-05-01T16:49:00.000-04:002007-05-01T16:49:00.000-04:00Anon1, The Ramban in Milchamos in Meg is pretty cl...Anon1, <BR/>The Ramban in Milchamos in Meg is pretty clear that it is a chovas hatzibur, and the Rav in Shiurim l'Zecher Aba Mari refers to it as a chovas hatzibur in the shiur on zimun. Rabbi Rakefet (I have not seen this inside) indicates that the Rav's actions were in deference to R' Chaim, though he held m'dina that the Ramban was correct.<BR/>Rabbi Maroof - so what mitzvah was being performed by that reading before the king that required invoking shome'a k'oneh. It's not talmud torah, because that does not require reciting from a text. It's not the formal mitzvah of keriyas hatorah. So why does the gemara need to introduce the principle in that context?Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-399924053517304652007-05-01T16:39:00.000-04:002007-05-01T16:39:00.000-04:00Even if it's a hovat yahid, it is still a davar sh...Even if it's a hovat yahid, it is still a davar shebiqdusha with berachot,etc., and therefore a totally different halachic entity than, say, a simple reading before the king.Rabbi Joshua Maroofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585369620887846940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-89713411459668085192007-05-01T15:23:00.000-04:002007-05-01T15:23:00.000-04:00Didn't R'Chayim supposedly maintain that kriyas ha...Didn't R'Chayim supposedly maintain that kriyas ha-Torah was a chovas yachid with stories of him going to great lengths to hear a monday or thursday kriyas ha-Torah? I remember from YU when his einekel, R'Twersky, would also walk into a later minyan just for kriyas ha-Torah on a monday or thursday and then leave (presumably having davenned already). This doesn't resolve the question between the gemara in brachos and sukkah but just a shitah seemed relevant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-5494734082402230092007-05-01T15:10:00.000-04:002007-05-01T15:10:00.000-04:00Still, though, you are comparing tsibur to yahid, ...Still, though, you are comparing tsibur to yahid, and the basis for this comparison seems tenuous to me.Rabbi Joshua Maroofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585369620887846940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-47603012160188564882007-05-01T11:34:00.000-04:002007-05-01T11:34:00.000-04:00>>>he is merely an individual having the Torah rea...>>>he is merely an individual having the Torah read to him. He is fulfilling his personal hiyuv of learning Torah, and therefore shomea k'oneh comes into play. <BR/><BR/>Why do you need shome'a k'oneh to fulfill talmud torah - reciting the words is not a requirement? Shome'a k'oneh only applies to mitzvos requiring a recitation - e.g. see the 'mipi hashemua' in the name of the Rav regarding sefiras ha'omer on p. 23 here: http://www.ou.org/pdf/mesorah/mes13.pdf <BR/>The same idea is discussed in R' Shternbruch's Moazin u'Zmanin as well with other examples. My BIL in his sefer Bigdei Shesh notes the minhag after leil shavuos is to listen to birchas hatorah and be yotzei through shome'a k'oneh, but each person reads the pesukim to do their own talmud torah after the brachos. He proposes a different hesber, but I think the reason is because T"T is not a mitzvah of reciting pesukim, it is a mitzvah of learning, and you can't invoke shome'a k'oneh for that (nor is there any need to).Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-74505128395871838072007-05-01T10:20:00.000-04:002007-05-01T10:20:00.000-04:00There is a very basic distinction between the typi...There is a very basic distinction between the typical case of Kriyat Hatorah and the case of Yoshiyahu. Kriyat Hatorah b'tsibbur is a new entity altogether, it is a davar shebiqdusha, etc. This may be why it has different parameters, and shomea k'oneh is not necessary to fulfill an individual hiyuv because the hiyuv is in fact communal.<BR/><BR/>But you can't necessarily extend this concept to all Torah readings! when it comes to Yoshiyahu, he is merely an individual having the Torah read to him. He is fulfilling his personal hiyuv of learning Torah, and therefore shomea k'oneh comes into play.Rabbi Joshua Maroofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585369620887846940noreply@blogger.com