tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post6079950752613143934..comments2024-03-25T09:43:27.402-04:00Comments on Divrei Chaim: kinyanei kesefChaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-55595708252886689472007-08-16T07:00:00.000-04:002007-08-16T07:00:00.000-04:00However, you really can't be choshesh for a kinyan...However, you really can't be choshesh for a kinyan l'chumrah in meilah, since you have to bring an asham.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-45361772261210094592007-08-15T12:47:00.000-04:002007-08-15T12:47:00.000-04:00I was thinking that is what you were getting at. ...I was thinking that is what you were getting at. It really more fundamentally gets to the nature of the two types of meilah -- hanaah and pegam vs. hotzaas reshus (again making it sound like that one may be chilul hekdesh and one may be gezel hekdesh) -- just one of the sugyos that makes this whole chakira of R'Chaim not so pashut (dont get wrong, I love the R'Chaim and it seems to be emes la-amito, but looking more of the sugyos there are some nuances to work out).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-10320363593900665912007-08-15T11:53:00.000-04:002007-08-15T11:53:00.000-04:00Sounds good. IIRC R' Shimon in Sha'rei Yosher and...Sounds good. IIRC R' Shimon in Sha'rei Yosher and the Achiezer try out similar approaches - me'ila depends on a heter histamshus, not a kinyan.<BR/>Maybe I should have spelled it out, but what bothers me is yesterday I posted R' Chaim's chiddush that me'ila is an issur gezel. If so, shouldn't the opposite of what you wrote be true? - i.e. hana'ah is a manifestation of kinyanei gezeila, not that the gezeila (or hotza'ah m'reshus) is a manifestation of an issur hana'ah.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-75977526842200596492007-08-15T11:18:00.000-04:002007-08-15T11:18:00.000-04:00Could it be that with terumah the only focus is th...Could it be that with terumah the only focus is the ownership of the cow -- if it belongs to the kohen or yisrael, which will determine whether the cow can eat terumah. Therefore, since min ha-torah, kesef is koneh, you have be choshesh le-chumrah.<BR/><BR/> With meilah, however, the issue is fundamentally one of hanaah. Being motzi mereshus is simply a manifestation of that. Thus, until he actually can benefit from it he is not moeil. I dont want to get into the whole issurim derabanan impacting whether you are neheneh min ha-torah but I'm sure you know the whole story (e.g. with kidushei kesef issur hanah mederabanan, like chametz the morning of erev pesach).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com