tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post8248723475886100085..comments2024-03-28T21:21:02.777-04:00Comments on Divrei Chaim: theological response to the ShoahChaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-62981415951553880792007-12-20T16:34:00.000-05:002007-12-20T16:34:00.000-05:00Anonymous - do you reject the theory that it is po...Anonymous - do you reject the theory that it is possible to suffer tragedy without being guilty of sin? <BR/>No.But I also reject the concept that we can be so certain why Hashem does or does not do someting that we can rule out a possiblty unless that possiblty is imposible(e.g. somone born with a deformity or hereditary illness clearly isn't suffering as an onesh)I don't see why the holocaust is impossible to be an onesh so I don't see the problem with looking for actions that MIGHT have caused it in an effort not to repeat them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-50107244487347224072007-12-20T11:44:00.000-05:002007-12-20T11:44:00.000-05:00Anonymous - do you reject the theory that it is po...Anonymous - do you reject the theory that it is possible to suffer tragedy without being guilty of sin? <BR/><BR/>>>>if he may suggest that he had a problem due to a specific avero <BR/><BR/>On a personal level for a regular human being this makes sense, which is why I think the Rebbe stressed that the Holocaust was such an immense tragedy as to entirely eclipse in its enormity any degree of punishment that could be deserved.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-32281963441291124652007-12-20T11:08:00.000-05:002007-12-20T11:08:00.000-05:00I can't argue with a mesorah you have but many rea...I can't argue with a mesorah you have but many reasons were given by the gedolim of that time for Gorush Sefard as well as Tach V'Tat so I still maimtain suggesting reasons for the Holocaust for the purpose of not repeating averos is acceptable.<BR/><BR/>I know someone who asked Rav Yaakov K. if he may suggest that he had a problem due to a specific avero that he will now refrain from and RYK said yes.(although obviosly the guy can't be certain his chesbon was a correct one or that he received a kapporah)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-17595545270749385452007-12-20T10:51:00.000-05:002007-12-20T10:51:00.000-05:00The navi says "ahl mah avdah ha'aretz?" and the Ge...The navi says "ahl mah avdah ha'aretz?" and the Gemara says they asked even the malachei hashreis what the reason was, and not one was foolhardy enough to suggest an answer, until Hashem Himself said the reasons- brisi heifeiru, etc. These reasons were not hidden, but when it comes to such a terrible punishment, the proper reaction is "I don't know; only God knows." Every individual should seek to improve himself, but no person has the right to even attempt an explanation.<BR/><BR/>I know that by the Churban Bayis Sheini Chazal do say reasons-- among them, sinas chinam, he'emidu divreihem, etc. I don't know why they had the right to say so in contrast to the bayis rishon. But my mesora from my teachers is that asserting knowledge of an explanation is not only wrong but even anserine (Kesuvos 85a).Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-53965027174730795732007-12-20T10:17:00.000-05:002007-12-20T10:17:00.000-05:00Most definitly we can not claim to KNOW the reason...Most definitly we can not claim to KNOW the reason for the holocaust.Hoewever I don't feel we can say with absolute certainty that it wasn't an onesh for averos.Although we of course don't know which specific ones if we are suggesting some in an effort to improve in those areas and other areas of Avodas Hashem I don't see this being different from any other 'Im royes Yissurim Boeim ulov yifasfas b'maasav'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-19592214033379917732007-12-19T23:25:00.000-05:002007-12-19T23:25:00.000-05:00There definitely is a split among the baalei machs...There definitely is a split among the baalei machshava on this topic. Rav Rudderman and Reb Moshe both told me that suggesting reasons/explanations for the holocaust is both foolish and revolting; other individuals (should I say le'havdil?) have publicly blamed public chillul shabbas in Warsaw, not covering hair, the Zionist movement, and other stuff.Eliezer Eisenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16036989084122930226noreply@blogger.com