tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post6521706970243887526..comments2024-03-25T09:43:27.402-04:00Comments on Divrei Chaim: rov - birur or hanhaga; probable truth vs. certaintyChaim B.http://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-7683672774048513762008-07-31T18:19:00.000-04:002008-07-31T18:19:00.000-04:00Whoops, I mistyped. The parenthetical in the last...Whoops, I mistyped. The parenthetical in the last post should read:<BR/><BR/>(I once heard from R. Aharon Soloveichik that this is the reason why if one dayyan says "Eini yodeah" the halakha requires that we add dayannim. At first glance, it seems odd that if 2 say chayyav and one says pattur that the person is chayyav, but if 2 say chayyav and one says eini yodeah we have to add dayyanim. The answer is that the one Eini Yodeah dayyan has no opinion -- and hence there is nothing to be battel be rov.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-37096123251827530202008-07-31T18:17:00.000-04:002008-07-31T18:17:00.000-04:00It's been a while since I go on your blog, today I...It's been a while since I go on your blog, today I decide to go on, and I read this excellent question!<BR/><BR/>R. Chaim Soloveichik gave a famous biur of acharei rabbim lehattos which answers your question. Basically, there are two halakhos of Rov we learn out from that passuk.<BR/><BR/>The first is that rov creates a biur about the truth of the matter -- in this case that the majority of the Beis Din has the correct psak. From there we extrapolate to cases like yours that we assume that the person touched one of the Rov.<BR/><BR/>The second is the halakha of bittul be rov. If the majority of a beis din decides that the psak is a certain way (the nitan is chayyav or pattur), then they are mevatel the opinion of the entire beis din, and the entire beis din paskens that way. Meaning that if the beis din votes 2:1 chayyav, al pi din the two are mevatel the one, and the entire beis din of three are mechayyev.<BR/><BR/>(I once heard from R. Aharon Soloveichik that this is the reason why if one dayyan says "Eini yodeah" the halakha requires that we add dayannim. At first glance, it seems odd that if 2 say chayyav and one says pattur that the person is chayyav, but if 2 say chayyav and one says pattur we have to add dayyanim. The answer is that the one Eini Yodeah dayyan has no opinion -- and hence there is nothing to be battel be rov.)<BR/><BR/>The Tanur Achnai is the same thing. Rov of the Beis Din paskened one way. Al pi din, the minority were battel to the majority.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-5980472344976139452008-07-31T14:45:00.000-04:002008-07-31T14:45:00.000-04:00I am alive and well bur got buried under work and ...I am alive and well bur got buried under work and some other issues this week. Will be back soon bl"n, and thank you for the comment.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-36257337871145961312008-07-31T14:13:00.000-04:002008-07-31T14:13:00.000-04:00I have been certified by your many readers to file...I have been certified by your many readers to file this as a Class Action Comment: <BR/><BR/>Where are you????Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-79168238428637576482008-07-27T17:48:00.000-04:002008-07-27T17:48:00.000-04:00Sod Hashem l'Yereyav : )Sod Hashem l'Yereyav : )Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-82811794305628555702008-07-27T09:28:00.000-04:002008-07-27T09:28:00.000-04:00How did Chaim Ozer Gruzinsky Know english?http://w...How did Chaim Ozer Gruzinsky Know english?<BR/>http://www.shturem.net/index.php?section=news&id=28103&lang=hebrewAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-51324808665295141082008-07-25T12:55:00.000-04:002008-07-25T12:55:00.000-04:00Gotcha.Gotcha.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-5569940046183536942008-07-25T12:11:00.000-04:002008-07-25T12:11:00.000-04:00I'm not sure what you mean. How are can we be cert...I'm not sure what you mean. How are can we be certain that a halachic opinion in correct just because it is embraced by a majority?<BR/><BR/>Becuase the principle of 'Achrei Rabbim L'Hatos in itself creates the Halacha, given the right circumstances.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-78555258394240004832008-07-25T11:39:00.000-04:002008-07-25T11:39:00.000-04:00Rabbi Maroof - just read the question. Unbelievab...Rabbi Maroof - just read the question. Unbelievable! <BR/><BR/>Anon1 - the Maharaytz Chiyus also talks about a Navi being mevarer metziyus. I touched on this in a shiur on Shavuos this year and saw the T"T who covers some similar ground.Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-1400323844116350142008-07-25T11:32:00.000-04:002008-07-25T11:32:00.000-04:00>>>a machlokes in halacha, not metzius, t...>>>a machlokes in halacha, not metzius, then we say that the rov creates a "certainty."<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure what you mean. How are can we be certain that a halachic opinion in correct just because it is embraced by a majority?Chaim B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02231811394447584320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-70756115208825247192008-07-25T10:45:00.000-04:002008-07-25T10:45:00.000-04:00Wait a minute -- the chiluk is clear -- you basica...Wait a minute -- the chiluk is clear -- you basically make it in your post. The navi telling you that you touched a frog and not a sheretz is a birur in metzius. THe tanur shel achnai is not a question of using rov as a birur in metzius but rather a principle in klalei ha-psak. Perhaps you could even suggest that even if le-gabei the role of rov with regard to a metzius it is simply a "probably truth" -- with respect to the role of rov in klalei ha-psak -- i.e., a machlokes in halacha, not metzius, then we say that the rov creates a "certainty."<BR/><BR/> See the Torah Temimah at the end of Vayikra on the drasha of Eileh ha-mitzvos, ein navi rashai lechadesh etc, that a navi cannot use nevuah for halachic clarification but he can for a metzius.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20173285.post-67638683638611241652008-07-25T10:39:00.000-04:002008-07-25T10:39:00.000-04:00I thought you might find the latest post on my "As...I thought you might find the latest post on my "Ask The Rabbi" blog interesting, and I was hoping to get your feedback. It thought you might have further insight into it.Rabbi Joshua Maroofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12585369620887846940noreply@blogger.com