Dixie Yid and I have been going at it on his blog (here and here in comments) about the arguments advanced in a book by Devorah Heshelis (a pseudonym) called “The Moon’s Lost Light”. I have not bought the book, but have read Ms. Heshelis’ ideas in an article (link) she published in Orot (some sample pages from Google books match the article nearly word for word).
I am less willing than Rabbi Meyer Twersky (see his review) to dismiss the question of inequality in halacha as inappropriate, but at the same time am very uncomfortable with Heshelis’ approach. In a nutshell, Heshelis’ view is that Chavah’s sin created a “hierarchy of service” preventing women from performing certain mitzvos or having certain rights. G-d values women no less than men, because innate worth is a function of fulfilling that role which G-d preordained. In the future, when Moshiach comes and Chavah’s sin is rectified, G-d will grant women “male capabilities and privileges”.
Heshelis’ distinction between “service” and “value” is a very poor answer to the question of inequality. A company which claims, “We value ALL of our employees, but management positions are reserved only for men” is viewed as guilty of discrimination. If religion claims that “We value ALL people, but certain service is reserved only for men”, it will be viewed as no less guilty of discrimination.
If certain employees have done something wrong, wouldn’t that warrant a curtailment of their rights or responsibilities? Heshelis feels that women would be happy to accept this notion of second-class “service” responsibility if they only recognized that they are to blame for their own situation – it’s not G-d who is guilty, but women themselves. Actually, Heshelis does not claim any individual woman is at fault. It’s just that every woman is descended from Chavah, and therefore all women, as a collective group, are tainted with original sin. It’s like saying to an African American, “Of course you personally are qualified for the job, but you can’t have it because you were born black. But what’s a job anyway? – we still value your innate worth as a human being.”
I’m not sure I find any more comfort in the fact that Heshelis assures us that when Moshiach comes these inequalities will be rectified (Just for the record, I am aware of no sources that promises that a future Sanhedrin will overturn established halachos). The feminist movement, in her view, is a sign that we are approaching the ultimate Redemption. Logically, halacha should change to accommodate this new social reality, but Heshelis falls back on the fact that without a Sanhedrin, change is impossible. In effect, halacha is emasculated from having any inherent meaning; we are stuck obeying formal rules which do not reflect the social reality of our times, without any possibility of relief until Moshiach. I’m not a woman so perhaps I am missing something, but this line of thinking does not make me feel very good about Torah law.
Heshelis does marshal sources to support her case, but sources are subject to interpretation (e.g. the relationship between feminism and Redemption is an example of an interesting conjecture, but not explicit in sources). Even if an approach is possibly correct, we still must critically examine its philosophical strengths and weaknesses before embracing it as a final conclusion. In this case, I remain in need of convincing that the approach suggested solves more problems than it creates.
On this point: "Logically, halacha should change to accommodate this new social reality, but Heshelis falls back on the fact that without a Sanhedrin, change is impossible. In effect, halacha is emasculated from having any inherent meaning; we are stuck obeying formal rules which do not reflect the social reality of our times, without any possibility of relief until Moshiach."
ReplyDeleteAs those who fought for civil rights declared, "Justice delayed is justice denied." It is not a real comfort to those who are denied their rights to be told that future generations will have a better situation.
bravo :)
ReplyDeletethis is how the blog medium is meant to work, when you post in response to a post, not discussing it at length in the comments, at least imho.
posting requires phrasing the idea in a way that people not familliar with the discussion will still understand..
the introduction paragraphs (mainly paragraph 2) of this post actually allowed me to understand your personal perspective and opinion, something i was unable to do from all of your comments over @ DixieYid.
@Ariella,
ReplyDeleteJustice delayed is justice denied, makes for a nice sound-byte, and is all to true when the judgement is in the hands of human beings to make.
But we have a lot of sources in Chazal that show that HaShem's midah k'neged midah is not always immediate in fact it almost never is---therefore Justice delayed is not always Justice denied, it has just been delayed for good reasons.
@R'Chaim i'm posting a response shortly :) after i've properly thought it through :)
"But we have a lot of sources in Chazal that show that HaShem's midah k'neged midah is not always immediate in fact it almost never is---therefore Justice delayed is not always Justice denied, it has just been delayed for good reasons."
ReplyDeleteYitz, I don't claim to know kabbalah. What I dare to say of G-d's attributes is based on what is explicitly stated in the Torah (shebichtav). The 13 middos tell us that Hashem does not delay reward, only punishment --the attribute of erech apayim -- so retribution could be delayed as an act of mercy and a chance for the wrongdoer to return to good. However, when it comes to taking people out of suffering, there is hastening rather than delay, as we see from Yetzias Mitzrayim. And again, speaking as a woman, there is no consolation in being told, yes, your status is lower on the hierarchy but that is due to Chava's sin, and your situation will improve when Moshiach comes.
If religion claims that “We value ALL people, but certain service is reserved only for men”, it will be viewed as no less guilty of discrimination.
ReplyDeleteWhat if a company reserved management for the Aaronson clan and middle management for Levinsons?
hows it different than any other hierarchy in judaism?
ReplyDeleteI dont know what bothers you about the idea that halacha is frozen and this is a function of golus/sin. This is true in many areas. We are by definition living with a system that cannot freely adapt as a function of (speaking broadly) golus.
>>>hows it different than any other hierarchy in judaism?
ReplyDeleteBecause other heirarchies are not taken out of context and used to justify other stereotypes. No one has suggested a kohein is inherently endowed with different traits than other Jews and therefore can work in mikdash while we can't.
>>>I dont know what bothers you about the idea that halacha is frozen and this is a function of golus/sin.
Because it creates a disconnect between legal truth and reality. Whether such a disconnect exists is debatable, but it is not Heshelis' argument so we can save it for another time. Her thesis is that even with a working Sanhedrin, women deserve second class status because they are tainted with sin.
She does think there is a disconnect between legal truth and reality today, just not that there always was. Her thesis is that as a factual matter, women are or were this way, and the reason is due to sin. that is no different than saying the bechorim cannot do avodah b/c they were tainted by sin.
ReplyDeleteDo you think there is some defect in the personality of a bechor and that is why he cannot do avodah? Would you like to generalize about their thinking or personality based on that fact?
ReplyDeleteI think we are going in circles now.
>>>She does think there is a disconnect between legal truth and reality today
And that is a philosophical weakness.
do you think there is a defect in the personality of a goy?the point is that all hierarchy enters the world through sin. She is not generalizing based on chava's sin; she is saying reality was or is like X and this is the reason why. You have the process backwards, as though first comes the sin, then speculation as to what is. She is working in reverse - and it's not her speculating. You don't like saying women are concrete, that is fine with me, but it's the zohar that says so.
ReplyDelete"And that is a philosophical weakness."
I think not. The definition of golus is that there is such disconnect. What do you think yom tov sheyni is all about, keeping yom tov on a day we know is not yom tov, davening and so on, if not the ultimate symbol (this one chosen deliberately) that what we have is incapacity to keep the torah properly - whether due to forgetting of traditions and not knowing, whether due to inabiity to adjust to changing times etc. There are all kinds of areas where we cannot function without a sanhedrin and this is a *punishment*
I will try to go to the other thread. Unlike the other fellow who enjoys having separate posts on this blog - and I would not have seen the thread on dixie yid if you hadnt posted - I find it easier when the arguments are all in one spot.