Yesterday we discussed whether there was a heter to eat felishigs leftovers during the nine days. If one does not rely on the minority view which is matir, the other option is to make a siyum. There are differing views regarding siyumim, and I’ll highlight just two. The Aruch haShulchan (551:23) is harshly critical of those who break the minhag of not eating meat, writing that if the non-Jews can abstain from meat for a few weeks (I assume he means during Lent) we certainly can afford to give up meat for a week for the sake of mourning the Mikdash. He suggests minimizing the invitees to any siyum and avoiding deliberately delaying a siyum so that it can be made during the nine days (551:28 link). What about learning a masechta for the specific purpose of having a siyum during the nine days? Here he tempers his position and suggests that this is not a bad idea, as the net result will be an increase in Torah study, no matter what the motivation.
At somewhat of an opposite extreme I would place the position of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, who encouraged making siyumim during the nine days and inviting others to share in the simcha, even people off the street who might know nothing about what a siyum is (Sha’arei Moadim p. 49-55). The Rebbe explained that the increase in Torah study and celebration of Torah study helps reveal that even amidst the bleakest time of churban there is still inherent potential for goodness. Furthermore, the joy of Torah helps in the process of transforming that churban to joy. The encouragement of others to participate increases ahavas yisrael, the lack of which contributed to the cause of churban.
In two different summer camps I was in as a teenager the practice was to have siyumim during the nine days so meat could be served. That this was a deliberate scheduling move I think is evident from the fact that no other siyumim were celebrated camp-wide the rest of the summer. I think it pays to keep in mind that the gemara only records an issur of eating meat during seudah hamafsekes before the fast – all else in minhag. In weighing the good that can come out of a siyum-- whether it be ahavas yisrael, whether it be a chinuch agenda of encouraging learning and siyumim – against a less formal issur, the scales may tilt differently than were we dealing with a true issur derabbaban.
Contemporary poskim discuss whether a fleishig restaurant may stay open during the nine days. In some locales the lack of readily available kosher food might drive some less than committed Jews to eat from questionable hashgachos or worse. Again, the issue seems to be weighing the cost of sacrificing a minhag against potential benefits. I don’t want to get into the halachic details other than to mention one point noted by the Maharasham. He writes that to allow people to eat meat is one thing, but to institutionalize the heter by publicly allowing a restaurant to serve felishigs under community hashgacha is a different thing. What is permissible on an individual case by case basis given certain circumstances should not always be taken as a blanket dispensation around which to formulate a public policy. An interesting point relevant to many other contexts.
1. I was told by someone who was responsible for a summer camp that fleishiks is cheaper; I don't know why, but this man is honest to a fault. He said that's why his yeshiva camp made siyumim; it was mamon hekdesh, and they had to be as frugal as possible.
ReplyDelete2. Even though they made siyumim every day, they did not make any siyumim during Shavua she'chal bo TB.
3. My halacha opinions aren't worth that much, but I'm emotionally drawn to the Rebbe's opinion. I was born a few years after the end of the war, and was raised under the constant specter of uncles and aunts and grandparents, all geonim and tzadikim, that were exterminated like vermin. To me, it's amazing that so many Jews remained faithful, that there aren't more Madeline Albrights and Jean-Marie Lustigers. I've always thought that for our generation, there was absolutely no reason to relive what we were still living through. Our work is to re-assert our life, not to re-experience our death.
4. Along the same lines- Lulei Torascha sha'ashuai, az avad'ti be'anyi. And then who would keep all these halachos?
>>>Even though they made siyumim every day, they did not make any siyumim during Shavua she'chal bo TB
ReplyDeleteI was thinking that this is an additional tzad l'hakeil as well, but it seems that even the mechaber who distinguishes bet. shevua shechal bo and the nine days does not distinguish with respect to not eating meat.
The point about mamon hekdesh is one I overlooked and definitely should be factored into the cheshbon.
I don't have a Shuclkhan Aruch in front of me right now, but I do recall speaking to a Sefardi who told me they only refrain from meat during Shavuah she Chal Bo, and that this is based on the Beis Yosef (or maybe other Sefardi poskim?)
ReplyDeleteTal Benschar: I don't have a Shuclkhan Aruch in front of me right now, but I do recall speaking to a Sefardi who told me they only refrain from meat during Shavuah she Chal Bo, and that this is based on the Beis Yosef (or maybe other Sefardi poskim?)
ReplyDeleteThe relevant Halakha: Orach Chaim 551:9.
In it, according to the Mechaber, some refrain from meat and wine during the week of Tish'ah be'Av, others from Rosh Chodesh, others still from Shiv'ah-Asar beTamuz.
When I was in Eretz Yisroel, a Taimani Mekubal [who happened to work for the Municipality of Yerushalaim as an exterminator] told me that when Tish'a B'Av comes out on a Sunday, they have none of the chumrot that we Ashkenazim are nohaig from Rosh Chodesh on.
ReplyDeleteOf course, it is possible that when the three weeks become a Yom Tov, the Ashkenazim will also be machmir in simcha from Rosh Chodesh on more than the Taimanim. But I wouldn't bet on it. We [especially the Litvaks]will find a zakain mamreh to pasken that just because the Bais Hamikdash has been rebuilt, bimhaira beyamainu, is no heter to change our minhagim. [There were poskim that claimed that even Eliyahu U'bais Dino would not have the authority to be matir kitniyos].
Rav Ovadya Yosef in Shu"T Yechave Da'as III:39 writes that sefaradim are machmir not to eat meat from Rosh Chodesh as well.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Maroof, if you are reading, anything you can add?
>>>We [especially the Litvaks]will find a zakain mamreh to pasken that just because the Bais Hamikdash has been rebuilt, bimhaira beyamainu, is no heter to change our minhagim.
ReplyDeleteI'll take this opportunity to do chazarah on my son's joke: v'samachta b'chagecha -- v'lo she'ar yemos ha'shana.
At the siyumim the Lubavitcher Rebbe encouraged, meat is never eaten.
ReplyDeleteChaim B.( 7:51 PM): Rav Ovadya Yosef in Shu"T Yechave Da'as III:39 writes that sefaradim are machmir not to eat meat from Rosh Chodesh as well.
ReplyDeleteAccording to "אכילת בשר מראש חודש אב", it seems you're correct( also in "דין אכילת בשר מראש חודש אב", in the Qisur Shulchan Arukh - Yalqut Yosef, which brings it as Minhag Yerushalayim without any dissenting views).
Regarding Tal Benschar's comment, the Hebrew Wikipedia claims( but without a source cite) that, although most Sefardim refrain from meat from after Rosh Chodesh, some do so only during the week Tish'a be'Av falls.
Also, regarding great unknown's comment, R. Eliezer Melamed's "תשעת הימים" claims that the Yemenite Jews follow the Mishnah's rulling, and only refrain from meat and wine in the Se'uda Mafseqet. R. Rason Arusi says the same
Rabbi Maroof speaks about differences between Ashkenazic and Sephardic custom with respect to meat in http://sites.google.com/site/rjmaroof/lawsofbenhametzarim-mdsc2010final.pdf?attredirects=0&d=1
ReplyDelete