Interview with R' Pinchas Friedman here (I added the bolding to the text):
"אין כאן רק מלחמה על הגוף", חורץ הגר"פ פרידמן ברורות. "יש כאן מלחמה בשתי מערכות. מערכה ראשונה היא על הגוף הגשמי, על הבריאות, על איכות החיים ועל החיים עצמם. אולם זו המערכה הקטנה. המערכה הגדולה יותר ניטשת בין כוחות הקדושה לסטרא אחרא. יש פה מלחמה בין אור לחושך, בין קודש לחול.
"אנשים מנפנפים בפסוק 'ונשמרתם מאוד לנפשותיכם'. וזה נכון. אבל חייבים לזכור שיש כאן שתי 'נפשות', רוחנית וגשמית. לכן, יותר ממה שחייבים לשמור על הנפש הגשמית כדי שתוכל לקיים את מצוות התורה, באותה מידה יש לשמור שלא תאבד הנפש הרוחנית כדי להציל את הנפש הגשמית ויצא שכרו בהפסדו.
"אם ננקוט בדימוי המפורסם של ה'חובות הלבבות': יש לפנינו מערכה קטנה ומערכה גדולה. המערכה הקטנה היא על ענייני הגוף ובריאות הנפש, המערכה הגדולה והחשובה הרבה יותר היא על הנשמה היהודית וענייני הרוחניות. האם יהיה בשביל מי לשמר את הגוף?!".
Perfectly put.
He is so right: not going to Uman is a yehoraig v'al ya'avor.
ReplyDeleteChoosing arba minim with masks is a yehoraig v'al ya'avor [https://matzav.com/photos-erev-sukkahs-5781-in-williamsburg-jdn/].
tefilla b'tzibur without masks - we mamash have to be moser nefesh about that.
Granted that NYC includes an element of sha'as hashmad [voted in by generations of Jews who ignored the warning signs of abortions and to'eivah rights], but in E. Yisroel - where the morbidity and mortality rates in the chareidi communities are much higher than anywhere else?
And are the number in NYC in question? Are the chareidi/chassidic community cases not spiking? Are people not shopping or dancing in the streets without masks? [and attacking press photographers who record their kiddush-haShem behavior https://nypost.com/2020/10/07/orthodox-protesters-attack-photographer-in-nyc-video-shows/].
When did the emotional element of yiddishkeit start overriding the halachic aspect? When did statements such as "If you come for hakafos I guarantee you will not become sick" become acceptable?
Indeed, the ruchniyus aspect of yiddishkeit is under attack: it is undergoing the same transformation that leads to "If two people love each other, G-d wouldn't want them not to get married". "Dovening in shul is so important that it's worth driving on Shabbos to get there."
What am I missing?
>>>When did statements such as "If you come for hakafos I guarantee you will not become sick" become acceptable?
Delete>>>What am I missing?
I think you are missing the fact that R' Pinchas Friedman did not say that, or to go to Uman, etc. Feel free to vent your frustration with the behavior of the chareidi community, but that is not the topic of my post. My point is simple: the chareidim may underestimate risks to their health, but the "enlightened" brethren of ours who gave up going to shul even before the Gov's announcement in NY underestimate the risks to the neshoma of the tzibur.
Do you disagree?
The sentiments expressed echo what R' Yoel Schoenfeld observed 6 weeks ago (posted on my blog on 8/20: https://www.queensjewishlink.com/index.php/opinion/36-message-from-r-schonfeld-r-yoel-schonfeld/2984-cancel-culture-comes-to-orthodoxy). Namely, shuls in the MO community are empty -- people have not come back. There is no commitment to learning. There is a religious collapse occurring.
Shutdowns are not the answer -- they are too costly not only to religious commitment, but they are too costly economically, they are too costly in terms of mental health, and they are not good health policy. Who says so? Thousands of doctors and educated lay people. See here https://gbdeclaration.org/
Here's something to consider. My father in law, Reb Reuven Feinstein, suspects that the complaint against Klal Yisroel is that limud hatorah and tefilla have become more social activities to have a chevra than a desire to understand God's word and acheive dveikus. By forcing bidud, we are forced to reallign our religious impulse directly to the RBSO.
ReplyDeletewhether or not it is the cause of what we are going through, the observation is on target.
Deletemy worry is that the result of severing the shelo lishma ties of social activities will not be more dveikus and introspection but more dropouts from the system (speaking in general).
[having trouble posting]
ReplyDeleteI agree as to the ultimate lack of efficacy of lockdowns. But there is a major difference between lockdowns and requiring wearing masks or maintaining social distancing. The famous Tshuva of Rav Akiva Eiger [chidushim nedarim 39] about following government limits on shul occupancy indicates that the concern for people who will be dissuaded from attending is secondary to health concerns, but of course he was not dealing with the MO community.
And many poskim explicitly allow wearing masks on Shabbos - with the strong implication that they would not if it was simple virtue signalling. [Although Rav Hershel Schechter allows masks as a tachsit which is unlikely to be removed].
I grant you that the problem is serious in the MO community, but they are the ones who would and do follow mask/distance safeguards. In the Chabad minyan I occasionally attend, masks and distance are de rigeur. The chillulei haShem come from other communities [this one may ultimately turn into murder: https://nypost.com/2020/10/07/jewish-man-blasted-as-snitch-beaten-during-nyc-protests/]
Incidentally, how many MO shuls are affected by the edicts of the NY government? It appears that the wrath of the government was engendered by the chareidi hotspots, and the response was [mostly] accordingly. Not that deBlasio is not an anti-semite, but Cuomo at least has somewhat more brains.
i am less convinced than you about the efficacy of masks. my views are more in line with gbdeclaration.org
Deletebut that is neither here nor there because lmaaseh 1) it is lockdown that is being imposed 2) it is not limited to chareidi neighborhoods (lawrence ny is pretty close to me and is far from chateidi. even far rockaway is a far cry from boro park. darchei torah and?tag followed the rules and were shut down. 3) an uptick in cases is vague. how large an uptick is enough to warrant surrendering your right to daven and send your kid to yeshiva? that is the issue at hand. is there some makor in halacha or scientific paper that has the answer to that? i dont know of any. 4) lastly, just got back from evening walk. numerous restaurants with indoor eating and tables barely separated within blocks of shul that chose to close already. something very wrong when we close shuls before steakhouses.
(typing on phone so sorry for typos).
As per Rav schonfelds drasha.
ReplyDeleteIf it really was a pikuach Nefesh then it would be different as we saw with Reb Yisrael salanter and the cholera epidemic.
Bu here it seems there's not such clear facts that it's not a real safeik (more ruba dleisa kaman than deisa kaman) it's more like 2 ksuvim hamahishim...just waiting for the kasuv ha3.
im still waiting (posted the challenge months ago) to for someone to define sakana threshold. no shul closed in the worst flu season, so .1 percent deaths are tolerable. covid is .6 (average). so why (makor) is one considered sakana and the other not. looking for threshold drfinition.
DeleteR schonfeld comment was per chaims mention of increase in dropouts.
ReplyDeleteReb eisenberger, I heard from a close Talmid of Rav Ruderman that tefila betzibur is a nice inyan but not a chiyuv. Meaning of you need to daven byechidus than you can/should.
rambam never mentions it as chiyuv.
DeleteAlthough I am a talmid muvhak of Rav Rudderman, I also am the chasna d'bei nesi'ah by Reb Moshe, and since Shuda d'Daini is not generally applied in Orach Chaim, I follow Reb Moshe's psak that it is a chiyuv. Follow in the sense that I accept it as the halacha, perhaps sometimes aspirational.
Deleteif you believe there is danger stay in your house but don't yell at great Jews for doing normal religious activities because you don't care about those activities anyway
ReplyDeleteI grant you that the problem is serious in the MO community, but they are the ones who would and do follow mask/distance safeguards - proves that this garbage called safety measure are worthless and just a way for the government to control us, destroy out liberty and rob me from even breathing air and you will go along with even will they say it is safe for you to blow your head off as to not infect anyone else
The same point is basically in the Chofetz Chayim on the TOrah in Vaeschanan - one must be just as careful with their ruchnious as their gashmious , the simple peshat in ונשמרם etc. is on ruchnious
ReplyDeleteWhen where all the MO rabbis screaming about the spiritual failures in the world, no, only this is something to rail against, they will always loke ot pick on the charediem because they know they are inferior so they have to make themselves feel good by trying to say they are evil.
At least some people in Boro Park are sticking up for our rights and not issuing proclamations of anti-Semitic nature like many other "rabbis" have done
ReplyDeleteWhat happened in bro park was nothing less than a massive chilul Hashem. The headline should've read,"this is what happens when you don't learn mussar".
ReplyDeleteWasn't a protest, no speeches, no message, got a bit scruffy, just people standing aimlessly blocking traffic, most not wearing masks.
So no, it wasn't a bunch of people sticking up for their religious freedom
so what is a way to stand up for our rights. Why do you say its a chilul Hashem, I can just as easily say and maintain that it is a kiddush Hashem. The message is obvious, I do not see why there was no message. What should Jews do to stand up, maybe write some letter that will be ignored?
ReplyDelete"just a way for the government to control us, destroy out liberty and rob me from even breathing air and you will go along with even will they say it is safe for you to blow your head off as to not infect anyone else"
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry but you have absolutely no idea of what an actual repressive society is and it shows. De Blasio is not exactly czarist Russia.
Your right, its not currently as bad as living under the czar, but we are Americans that believe in free rights, we do not relinquish our freedom easily and I commend and applaud those that will stand for those rights. But besides it does not become a totalitarian government overnight, this is the beginning of what may be a slippery slope.
Delete