Here is an article by Rabbi Menachem Genack which you can read in its entirety, or take my short version of the first few paragraphs: pikuach nefesh is very important in Judaism. Now that we got that out of the way, let's cut to the chase and get to the clincher paragraph, but I'm going to change just two words to make a point:
"For some reason that I cannot fathom, parts of the Orthodox community today act as if the principle of pikuach nefesh no longer applies and disregard the government regulations enacted to protect their own lives and those of their neighbors. This segment of the population appears to have decided that a cause that has already killed more than one million people throughout the world, and over 38,000 in the United States, should not be regarded as a danger and should not require them to change their way of life."
Sounds convincing. Ready to change your way of life? After all, this is pikuach nefesh!
Glad I've convinced you to stop driving.
Yes, motor accidents killed 38000 people last year in the US, 1.35 million worldwide, and we haven't even spoken about the 4.4 million in the US alone who were seriously injured.
We shouldn't even need the government to require safety inspections of cars or to license drivers. Chamira sakanta m'issura, we should go above and beyond and just give up driving completely until a safer method of transportation can be achieved.
Don't people know pikuach nefesh is fundamental, that R' Chaim called someone who was not strict in this area an am ha'aretz? Etc etc etc. fill in all the platitudes you want to round this out.
You get the point, I hope. Saying that if you disagree with us, you disagree with the concept of pikuach nefesh is like saying that if you disagree with us about climate change, you disagree with science; disagree with us about abortion and you are a misogynist; disagree with us about BLM and you must be a racist.
I guess this is the level of discourse we are now at in our community.
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ReplyDeleteThere is no tsu-shdel.
ReplyDeleteDriving is simply a requirement for life/work (unless you're in NYC and can take public trans.) and a legit. risk to take assuming one drives carefully as he can, wears a seatbelt. Yes, accidents occur but it's a miuta d'miuta, BH
Mask wearing and distancing (and davening outside, etc.), on the other hand, is a Zeh Ne'heneh V'Zeh Lo Chaser! - one can still go about their lives and just do those simple things. If those in NYC hot areas would have followed these precautions months ago, they would have been able to avoid the unfortunate closures over Yom Tov.
>>>Driving is simply a requirement for life/work
DeleteI must have missed the "required for work" exception in halachos of pikuach nefesh.
>>>it's a miuta d'miuta
Therefore the question (which I posted months ago) that should be asked is what is the threshold that defines sakana. There currently are 64 people hospitalized with Covid in all of Nassau County, which has about 1.35 million citizens. How many of those 64 will die? Is that not a miyuta> Is that enough to warrant closing yeshivos?
But that's not what R' Genack wants to discuss or how he frames the issue, so what you say is no argument in his favor. You want to discuss details, then lets have a nuanced argument with numbers and facts. But dont give me the straw man argument that any disagreements in this area mean you don't appreciate the severity of pikuach nefesh.
>>>If those in NYC hot areas would have followed these precautions months ago
You mean like the protestors who the governor and mayor allowed to rampage through the city did?
Lots of scientists oppose the type lockdowns being imposed by the state of NY, e.g. https://gbdeclaration.org/ Lockdown policies lead to death, e.g. https://fee.org/articles/four-newborns-die-after-being-denied-heart-surgery-because-of-covid-travel-restrictions/
If you disagree with the great barrington declaration that I linked to, does that mean you are anti-science? Anti-pikuach nefesh?
The exception for work is ואלין הוא נושא את נפשו
DeleteI greatly appreciate your wisdom and courage in taking a position on this issue. I agree with you completely. IMHO, the majority of the COVID shutdown fanatics are allowing politically driven pseudo-science to override rational thinking and the commitments to living our lives in a Torah-true fashion.
ReplyDeleteIn point of fact, the average person's odds of dying from COVID are far lower than of dying in a car accident. The odds of dying in a car accident are about 1 in 103. Remember, we're talking death here. Odds of just being a car accident are much higher (1 in 25 according to the defensive driving course we just took). People deny this b/c they simply don't equate getting in a car with such risk, but that's a position born of ignorance combined with whatever is familiar seeming safer. Also odds of dying from opioids is higher, and the lockdown has raised that number even more. See stats here https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/preventable-death-overview/odds-of-dying/ and notice that this year they had to add on the COVID warning ahead without stats because they want to keep up the narrative.
ReplyDelete1 - 25. How is that possible? How is that metziyus being calculated? We all see thousands of cars each day on the highway that I assume are getting safely BH to their destination - ?
DeleteThe analogy is poor. The better analogy is you've convinced us to stop wearing seatbelts, obeying speed limits, traffic signs and lights, etc.
ReplyDeleteOn the flip side, wearing seatbelts, obeying speed limits, traffic signs and lights don't endanger anyone.
DeleteConversely some of the more onerous restrictions (particularly the lockdowns)lead to suicide and other very serious problems.
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DeleteHow many suicides has mask wearing alone caused? The vast majority of the local anti-maskers i have spoken with merely find them annoying and infringing on their liberties. Can say the same re seatbelts. Ironically noticed last night one of the most vociferous local anti- maskers also doesn't wear a seat belt when driving...
DeleteSo let me get this straight -- you think only people who disobey traffic laws get in accidents or are struck by cars and only people who don't wear masks get infected or infect others?
DeleteThat is completely contrary to fact.
Secondly, the governor is imposing not just mask regulations, but lockdown regulations. As has been the case for months now, as business have not been allowed to open across NY. Again, you are not dealing in facts.
It's about reasonable Hishtadlus. Of course there are exceptions Rachmana LiTzlan, but mask-wearing/seatbelts can only help. All of these lockdown tragedies are horrible agreed - but that's more of a "Grama" from the lockdown (lots of people were annoyingly cramped up in a small apt. including me and my young kids but I didn't BH harm myself or take drugs) than if someone does not wear a mask and infects people (a preventable action byadayim).
DeleteIt is terrible about businesses though, although many resturants.
DeleteAlso, just like closing yeshivos is obviously not ideal, but there were silver linings: Mishmar across America was started, people were able to daven with more kavana at home and made their homes a mikdash miat and possibly were we were all being mkayem VNishmartem the whole time!
many resturants were able to find a way to make it thru (obviously not all)
DeleteI will say though to not sound like a complete akshan - is that I live out of town so in the end I realize I may not be in the best position to comment.
I am starting to recant a little bit based on some of the things I am seeing in Brooklyn - that gov't officials are taking things overboard for no reason ...
DeleteWhat percentage of traffic deaths occur when two people are going the speed limits, wearing their seat belts, have legally inspected safe vehicles with air bags, are looking at the road, and not illegally crossing anything?
ReplyDeleteProbably very few. But that's not in your control. Your question should be what percentage of accidents occur where at least one party is completely following the rules, and the answer there is probably much higher
Delete