Tuesday, September 11, 2007

tekiyos d'meyushav vs. during musaf - which are the "real" tekiyos?

If one has no other vegetable and is forced to use maror for karpas (Pesachim 115), Rav Huna holds that the bracha of al achilas maror is deferred until later in the seder when maror is eaten in the context and with the intent of fulfilling the mitzvah of maror. Rav Chisda disagrees – the bracha of maror should be recited before karpas, as what sense does it make to eat one’s fill of maror and only afterwards to recite a bracha?

There are two possible ways to understand Rav Chisda’s disagreement: 1) Rav Chisda may holdsthat the bracha of maror is fulfilled when the vegetable is eaten as karpas regardless of whether one has kavanah to fulfill the mitzvah at that point or later – kavanah is not required; 2) Rav Chisda may agree with the fundamental point that the mitzvah of maror is not fulfilled until later when it is eaten with intent for the mitzvah of maror, but nonetheless holds that the bracha should be recited earlier over karpas. Even though there is an interruption of reciting the hagadah, the bracha recited by karpas can still count for the mitzvah of maror fulfilled later.

Tosfos (d”h maskif) in Pesachim takes the latter approach, and draws an analogy to tekiyas shofar. Even though the primary fulfillment of mitzvas shofar is hearing the shofar blown during the brachos of malchiyos, zichronos, and shofaros of musaf, we recite the bracha of tekiyas shofar earlier, before the tekiyos d’meyushav blown before musaf.

This analogy which Tosfos mentions in passing is a very significant point. To answer the question posed by the title of this post, tekiyos during musaf according to Tosfos are the "real" tekiyos d'oraysa of Rosh haShana. More to come bl”n…


  1. Anonymous4:04 PM

    According to Rashi too, who says that that tekiot al seder habrachot is d'oraita. Which means that Rashi must hold that recitation of the brachot is d'oraita when accompanied by shofar, and d'rabbanan otherwise, to fit with the mishna about where to go if you have to pick one or the other. According to the Rav, this is a kiyum of "zichron teruah" according to the Bavli. (The Yerushalmi holds that "zichron teruah" refers to not blowing shofar on Shabbat, an opinion considered but rejected by the Bavli.) I heard a tape from Rav Schachter recently where he makes clear that one should be careful to finish the Mussaph amida by the beginning of Chazarat hashatz, because a proper fulfillment of tekiot al seder habrachot requires one to hear chazarat hashatz from the beginning.

  2. Re: the last point, see Gr"ch in the stencil about not missing a word of chazaras hashatz, but the Chazon Ish disagrees.

  3. Anonymous4:59 PM

    what does "in the stencil" mean?

  4. meaning gr'ch al shas, which is just a collection of unreviewed (neither by r' chaim or his sons) notes