Thursday, March 18, 2021

what was the raavya's fourth question in mah nishtana?

 Aruch haShulchan (472:3)  

ודע שהטור כתב בשם ראבי"ה, דבזמן הזה במדינתינו שאין רגילין לאכול בהסיבה – אינו צריך להסב, עיין שם

There is a machlokes between the Raavya and everyone else whether haseiba is required in our days.  Raavya says that since when people dine in luxury they no longer eat that way, there is no point to do so at the seder.   

Ah"S brings a proof against the Raavya:

וראיה לזה: שהרי במשנה (קטז א) בשאלת "מה נשתנה" – לא הוזכרה שאלת ההסיבה, ובנוסחא שלנו ישנה. והטעם דבזמן המשנה לא היתה שינוי, ולא היה לבן מה לשאול על זה. אבל עכשיו שואל על השינוי, ולכן העיקר כדברי רוב הפוסקים שחיוב יש בהסיבה

The reason the Mishna does not mention the question of "Why do we we eat b'haseiba on this night..." is because in the days of the Mishna everyone always ate b'haseiba.  It was not something a child would remark on.  It's davka in our times when we do haseiba even though people do not eat that way, contra to the Raavya, that it elicits the question.  

When the Raavya asked Mah Nishtana, what was his fourth question?  Since he held there was no chiyuv haseiba, how could he ask about it? 


  1. Maybe he takeh only had 3 questions?

    1. only 3, by assigning The Four Sons to The Four Questions:

      the wise son, near to the word tovel (for purification), to the first question;
      the wicked son, near to the word chameitz (haughty), to the second;
      the simple son, near to the word vegetable (only able to focus on his mother's command to 'eat your vegetables!'), to the third question;
      and the son who cannot ask, to the "fourth"!

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  3. He probably asked the four questions exactly as they are written in the Mishna with no mention of hesiba.

  4. When I asked your question to my shiur they said that even at the time they did heseiba, it was a special thing only done at special occasions at which the reason was immediately apparent. Like a school banquet, for example. So the question is, what is it about tonight that we are doing heseiba, it seems like any other Shabbos or Yomtov when we do not do heseiba.