Tuesday, April 08, 2008

erev pesach she'chal b'shabbos - what to eat

There is a wild tshuvah in the Mishneh Halachos (vol 8) regarding someone who woke up very late on Erev Pesach she’chal b’Shabbos and was faced with the choice of washing over chameitz to fulfill the mitzvah of eating a seudah on pas before the time to eat chameitz expired or davening. On the one hand, there is an issur of eating before tefilah, but on the other hand, there is a mitzvah to wash for seudas Shabbos, and that mitzvah is potentially a mitzvah overes because there is not much else you can wash on the rest of the day. R’ Menashe Klein sets out a whole list of things wrong with the assumptions behind the question which you can mull over.

While on the topic of what to eat on Erev Pesach which falls on Shabbos, I discovered a few sources which discuss an idea which may get points for creativity but did not make too many poskim happy. Rabeinu Tam writes that since egg matzah cannot be used for the mitzvah of matzah, it is not off-limits on Erev Pesach. Using similar logic, a contemporary Rabbi proposed that matzah baked specifically “shelo lishma” which is not usable for mitzvas matzah would be permissible to eat on Erev Pesach as well. Aside from the fact that no previous poskim ever entertained this idea, the Rambam writes (Hil Ch”M ch. 6) that the prohibition of eating matzah on Erev Pesach is designed to make eating matzah on the seder night something distinctive (heker). Egg matzah is easily distinguishable from matzah shemurah. The same cannot be said for matzah that looks identical to matzah shemurah but was baked shelo lishma.

13 comments:

  1. Mishneh Halacha I understand.
    Shoneh Halacha I understand. Mishaneh Halacha, though some would agree with that assessment, is probably not what he meant to call his sefer.

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  2. Whoops! Corrected that one

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  3. Anonymous7:42 PM

    A guy comes to his Rav and asks how do I feed my fish on Pesach?Simple says his Rav grind some Matzah and throw it into the fish tank.The person answers but thats "GEBROKTS" The rav says dont worry theor LitFISH.

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  4. The Mishnas Ya'avetz discusses the heter of eating matzah baked shelo l'sheim matzah . He wants to allow it but others disagree.

    Rav Asher Weiss in his haggadah (the original, not the Artscroll version) has a nice piece where hew lists the various scenarios one might be able to utilize on Erev Pesach Sh'chal B'Shabbos and he they discusses if they make sense.

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  5. Interesting that R' Zolty would be a matir - I saw in Orchos Kehilas Ya'akov that the Steipler was opposed, R' Moshe Shternbruch was opposed, the Minchas Yitzchak has a tsuvah written for Badatz of Eidah Chareidis and he is opposed.

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  6. I am actually in the middle of going thru the Minchas Yitzchak's teshuva

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  7. When you are done can you comment if you are convinced by his proofs.

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  8. 4me2no4:20 PM

    The only psak of Rav Shternbuch that I know of in which he is mattir something is that he holds Cheerios and the like don't have turisa de'nahama, so you don't have to wash, make hamotzi, and bentch on breakfast.

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  9. Who is the contemporary poseq to whom you allude, who permits non-lishma matza?

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  10. I did not find his name in any of the sources I saw. R' Chaim Markowitz says R' Zolti in Mishnas Ya'avetz is matir, but he can't be the one who the Minchas Yitzchak and others are referring to in their critique - in the Orchos haKehilas Ya'akov (I may have the title slightly off) the issue is presented a having been raised by a certain rabbi from the Rabbanut (and that association with the rabbanut is presented as implying a negative connotation, but that may be the spin of the melakeit).
    Maybe someone can dig up the original source...

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  11. Chaim M is right- the Mishnas Yaavetz 15:5 is mattir-matza not-shmura lehalacha. So any criticism of the shitta that is based on the political orientation and implied irresponsibility of the mattir is off base. I think Rav Zolti's reputation is still intact.

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  12. Anonymous6:54 PM

    Rav Zolti advocated this a bit less than thirty years ago, I believe. Rav SZA opposed it, as is recorded in Halichos Shlomo, Hilchos Pesach.

    The question there was whether it should be used in Army bases, hospitals, and hotels.

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