At the threshold of falling prey to temptation at the hands of Eishes Potifar, Yosef sees the image of his father (Rashi based on Sotah 36) and it is this image which causes him to desist from sin. The Yerushalmi (Horiyos 2:5, 10a in Vilna ed) adds according to anothe view that he saw the image of his mother.
It's a simple point, but one I think that is worth spelling out: It's not a halacha in the Rambam or a law of Egypt or even a sense of morality that causes Yosef to pause. All these are but minor obstacles that the yetzer hara can easily surmount. What grabs Yosef's attention is the image of Ya'akov the tzadik, Ya'akov his father. We ship our kids off to school and shul to learn and memorize rules and regulations, do's and don't's, but when push comes to shove, it's not a memorized rule that will guide their behavior -- it's dmus d'yukno of Aviv v'Imo. It's the image we present as parents that will stick in our children's minds.
What is the significance of the Yerushalmi's insight that Yosef saw his mother's image? My wife suggested a pshat that beat any idea I had. Midrashim indicate that Eishes Potifar saw in the stars that she was fated for Yosef. There was truth to this vision, as it was her daughter who became Yosef's wife. Seforim also compare Eishes Potifar's desire for Yosef with that of Tamar for Yehudah -- both had the purest motives in wanting to be with a tzadik and bring his children into the world. Yosef could easily have justified succumbing to her advances as a surrender to the inevitable dictates of fate. Yet, he remembered the image of his mother Rachel, who was fated and destined and desired becoming Ya'akov's wife, yet gave all of that up for the sake of Leah. Rachel's heroic action for the sake of heaven against what fate decreed was the impetus for Yosef's own heroic resistance.
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Yasher koach! Although by many accounts, Osnas bas Potifera was the daughter of Dina and Shchem, but was adopted by Potifera.
ReplyDeleteWhy should the thought of his mother not have stopped him doing an aveirah? His mother was at least as upright as his father.
ReplyDeleteIf you have proven that halacha would not have enabled Yosef to stop himself how could the thought of his mother's heroism in relation to a ruchniasdike inyan have stopped him?
pc :-)
Wasn't "eishes potifar" married to potifar ?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure that the analogous imagery is comparing pink diamonds to pink diamonds.
scenario one : a married woman wants to seduce joseph, its not clear what Josephs feelings towards the married woman were.
did he love her too ?
He didnt consummate his love for her cuz the image of his mother ? what part of that love story is remotely similar to this seduction saga ?
Remember that his mother let leah love yaakov first, reminded joseph that he shouldnt be falling in love and or be having relationships with married women ?
scenario two: joseph remembers his father yaakov who loved rachel , and rachel loved yaakov.
rachel feels bad for leah at the wedding and leah marries yaakov.
yaakov still loves rachel and winds up marrying her too.
I dont get the whole leah marrying yaakov story, it makes no sense logically, and is based on sneakiness.
If yaakov wanted to marry rachel, no one should have been tricking him into marrying leah.
why would leah even go along with this ? what kind of marriage could survive something that started out with sneakiness and dishonesty.
anyway what does rachel's letting leah marry yaakov first,(why would leah want to even do this) or letting leah have yaakov, have to do with joseph deciding not to have a relationship with a women that was already married.
Was the minhag hamokom back in the day favorable for women with regards to multiple husbands or multiple male lovers ?
otherwise its ordinary seduction that joseph did not succumb to.
No dazzling hashgacha pratis image of his mother or father and their unrelated marriages and how they managed to marry everyone they wanted to marry .....
jaded topaz
male loyalty to a single woman is a new concept, polygamy was banned by rabbeinnu gershom about a millenium ago. but the only thing wrong about the stroy is that nowadays it isn't the done thing.
ReplyDeleteN,
ReplyDeleteMy point was "eishes potifar" was not a single woman.
Doesnt eishes mean "wife of" ?
I agree with the polygamy ban by rabeinu gershom, French Scholars and Ashkenaz always rule and are always right with the sex rules and regulations, and everything else of course.
my other (longwinded) point was that since the love stories for both his father and mother are not similar in any way , I think the "father" joseph was worried about was the father in the sky.
And I guess if ure in the mood of reconciling rashis point on sotah 36, with the Yerushalmi Horiyos 2:5, 10a in Vilna ed, one could apply the RambaN's opening statement in the iggeres haramban "shema beni mussar avichah v-al titosh torash imecha"....
At the end of the day though its about the laws, the ones the father in the sky initially provided.
But the mothers are the halacha know it alls, at least according to the influenced by French scholars RambaN ;-)
jaded topaz
>>>Why should the thought of his mother not have stopped him doing an aveirah?
ReplyDeleteThe point was his mother's image did stop him. Question is what new nuance is introduced by the image of his mother (it's another de'ah in the Ylmi) that is not also suggested by the image of his father.
For those of you unfamiliar with how Chazal learn this inyan, Yosef was ready to succumb to Eshes Potifar. It was not merely a matter of seduction of the senses but of an argument that it is destined for them to come together and have children. (That is a parallel that Chazal noted in the juxtaposition between this story and that of Yehudah and Tamar.) So everything seemed to conspire to push Yosef into this relationship. He would have been powerless to resist without the appearance of his father (and according to one variant, his mother). So the question is, why were they the keys to get him out? That is what this post examines. But the post does presuppose a certain familiarity with the behind the scenes story through the Midrash.
ReplyDelete>>Why should the thought of his mother not have stopped him doing an aveirah?
ReplyDelete>>>The point was his mother's image did stop him. Question is what new nuance is introduced by the image of his mother (it's another de'ah in the Ylmi) that is not also suggested by the image of his father.
Peh sheosar hu hapeh shehitir - you only exist becuase of your parents, so recalling your father is a way of restraining your actions to ones that your father would approve of, however just recalling your father is not necessarily going to do the trick becuase there is also a part of you that exists becuase of your mother.
Therefore in order to restrain all of you you need to recall both your father and also your mother.
Ariella,
ReplyDeleteyou suggested
"It was not merely a matter of seduction of the senses but of an argument that it is destined for them to come together and have children."
I have no idea what you mean by this.
Who wouldnt want matters like "seduction of the senses" redefined and described as mystically destined to come together and make babies and possibly even tzaddik babies.
Who decided that the seduction by a married temptress was actually destiny in disguise all dressed up and married too.
jaded topaz
>>>Therefore in order to restrain all of you you need to recall both your father and also your mother.
ReplyDeleteIf mother-father go hand in hand why does the Bavli neglect to mention the mother completely and why is only brought by a second man d'amar in the Ylmi? That's why I think it must be adding a new nuance in addition to the father image.
JT, you have to learn the Midrashim on this before you can come to appreciate why the father or mother image was necessary for Yosef to extract himself.
ReplyDeleteAriella,
ReplyDeleteWhat i have to learn is irrelevant.
you asserted the following :
"For those of you unfamiliar with how Chazal learn this inyan, Yosef was ready to succumb to Eshes Potifar. It was not merely a matter of seduction of the senses but of an argument that it is destined for them to come together and have children."
Whether or not anyone is familiar with the random reference of yours to "chazal" (whoever that even is), that still wouldnt explain why the married seductress seducing a man story could be reclassified halachically as a chicken soup for the hashgacha pratis's soul.
what is relevant is what your or your chazals are basing their theories on.
introducing other illicit relationships does not appear to be a logical answer to anything about anything whether they are parallel in nature or perpendicular in theory.
My question was, what are you basing your assumption that the married temptresses desire be with joseph the handsome studd muffin was not only predestined for them in a come together fashion, but there were handsome tzaddikim in the stars too.
this is the kind of hashgacha pratis revisionism only the mussar movement can pull off. which is why the mussar movement is constantly getting halacha wrong.
seduction lesheim shamayim,sounds like the perfect topic for the next mussar symposium on how to incorporate feelings lesheim shamyaim so that suddenly and for the sake of g-d of course, traits concepts and ideas that are generally frowned upon are repackaged with traditional self centered mussar feelings and heartfelt philosophies for a flakier philosophical halacha free tommorrow.
jaded topaz
what would rabbi louis ginzberg say ?
ReplyDeletewhat would his father say ?
jaded topaz
There is no reason to assume that the officer of Pharoah's guard, whose wife attempted to seduce Joseph, was the same man as Joseph's father-in-law, a priest at the Temple in Heliopolis. The men are ascribed different roles. The names indicate mean of high status - men who were part of the estabished order, al-tifra. This is the likely source of the word Po-tifra.
ReplyDelete