Wednesday, October 06, 2010

interesting mashiv ha'ruach question (III)

We’ve been dealing with the following question: my daughter entered shul just before the gabai announced before musaf to start saying mashiv ha’ruach u’mordi hageshem. She was still up to tefilas shacharis. Does she have to say mashiv ha’ruach in her tefilas shacharis?

Yesterday I went over possibly solutions, (and if you did not see the comment, Tamir points out that the Sefer Minhagei Chabad cites a psak of the Rebbe that one should say mashiv ha’ruach in the scenario given); today I want to just frame the issue in two different ways:

A) First Approach -- The Yerushalmi writes that in truth we should start saying mashiv ha’ruach by ma’ariv on Shmini Atzeres. We don’t, because many people don’t come to shul at ma’ariv (those Amoraim were such realists, weren’t they?) and making a change that only some of the people know about would lead to confusion. Why not then make the change in shacharis? The Yerushalmi offers two answers: 1) people would think the change was made the night before, leading us back to the same confusion; 2) it is impossible to interrupt and announce a change before the amidah in shacharis. (These two answers may reflect a difference of opinion as to whether smichas geulah l’tefilah is required on Yom Tov or not, but that’s a discussion for another time.) What we are left with is making the announcement to start saying mashiv ha’ruach before musaf.

Is that conclusion a din or simply a metziyus? Meaning, at the end of the day, is pushing off mashiv ha’ruach until musaf just a practical consideration, but from a legal perspective it belongs in shacharis or even ma’ariv, or does halacha dictate that reciting mashiv ha’ruach belongs only to musaf for the reasons outlined?

If mashiv ha’ruach really belongs to shacharis or ma’ariv if only the practical hurdles could be overcome, then in a case where those hurdles don’t exist, e.g. you are davening shacharis but hear an announcement to say mashiv ha’ruach, then it makes sense to say it. But if the Yerushalmi is telling us a din, i.e. the recitation of mashiv ha’ruach starts only from musaf, then all bets are off.

B) Second Approach -- It seems that two ingredients are necessary to initiate the obligation to say mashiv ha’ruach: 1) an announcement of the switch; 2) before or during tefilas musaf. What is the interplay between these ingredients? Is it the tefilah of musaf which generates the chiyuv to start saying mashiv ha’ruach, but only on the condition that some announcement is made? Or is it the announcement which triggers the obligation, but the announcement cannot be made before musaf? Which is the mechayeiv and which is the tnai? Or (for you R’ Shimon Shkop fans), maybe it is the hitztarfus of the announcement and the tefilah together which are necessary?

If the announcement is its own mechayeiv, then even if you are in the middle of shacharis, once you hear mashiv ha’ruach, you should start saying it. However, if the chiyuv begins only at musaf, provided an announcement is made, all bets are off if you are davening shacharis.

Two mareh mekomos that are interesting and/or important to the discussion:
1) The Pri Megadim we discussed yesterday writes that even if someone calls out mashiv ha’ruach before shacharis, one should not start the recitation until tefilas musaf. Sounds to me like the tefila, not the announcement, is the key ingredient. But again, perhaps it is the announcement which is the crucial factor, but an announcement that is not made at the appropriate time carries no weight.
2) The Chochmas Shlomo draws an interesting conclusion from a diyuk. The Shulchan Aruch says someone who is sick at home must until the time that the tzibur davens musaf to daven their own tefilah. In this way, the announcement to say mashiv ha’ruach done in the tzibur allows them to add those words as well. R’ Shlomo Kluger asks: why wait? If you are at home and haven’t heard any announcement to change, just daven without saying mashiv ha’ruach!? Apparently mashiv ha’ruach must be said in tefilas musaf, and as part of the fulfilling that chiyuv a person must ensure that his/her tefilah is one that is preceded by an announcement which allows the appropriate change to be made.

1 comment:

  1. Sorry! All the comments were good -- I just cited Tamir's because it was a mefurash mareh makom